Proving that \sqrt{p} is irrational

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Mandelbroth
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Irrational
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the irrationality of \(\sqrt{p}\), where \(p\) is a prime number. Participants explore a proposed proof by contradiction and examine its validity, considering both the general case for positive integers and the specific case of prime numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof by contradiction, suggesting that if \(\sqrt{p} = \frac{m}{n}\) for coprime integers \(m\) and \(n\), then \(p\) must equal \(\frac{m^2}{n^2}\), leading to the conclusion that \(n^2\) must equal 1.
  • Another participant agrees with the validity of the proof, noting that the last step relies on the fact that a prime cannot be a perfect square.
  • A different participant asserts that the proof is valid for any positive integer, not just primes, arguing that the square root of a positive integer is either an integer or irrational.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the proposed proof, though there is a disagreement regarding the necessity of \(p\) being prime for the proof to hold. Some assert it applies to all positive integers, while others focus on the case of primes.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the properties of integers and primes are present, but participants do not fully explore the implications of these assumptions or the generality of the proof.

Mandelbroth
Messages
610
Reaction score
23
I'm aware of the standard proof.

What I'm wondering is why we can't just do the following. Given, I haven't slept well and I'm currently out of caffeine, so this one might be trivial for you guys.

Suppose, by way of contradiction, that ##\sqrt{p}=\frac{m}{n}##, for ##m,n\in\mathbb{Z}## coprime. Then, ##p=\frac{m^2}{n^2}##. Because ##p## is an integer, ##\frac{m^2}{n^2}## must be as well. However, because ##m## and ##n## are coprime, so are ##m^2## and ##n^2##. Thus, ##n^2=1## is necessary for ##\frac{m^2}{n^2}## to be an integer. But that means ##m^2=p##, and ##p## is prime. Thus, a contradiction is met and we see that ##\sqrt{p}## is irrational.

Is this valid? I'll probably figure out my mistake (if I made one) by the time I get back with adequate caffeination, but until then, I'd like to make sure I figure it out.

Thank you.

Edit: Gee, I guess it might be important to mention that ##p## is prime. :facepalm:
 
Last edited:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
In my opinion, it's valid.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
It looks OK to me.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Completely valid. The last step basically assumes that a prime cannot be a perfect square, which is true and fairly obvious. But if you really want to make the proof completely obvious, you can state: ##m^2 = p##. Hence ##m|p## (m divides p), which is a contradiction.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Mandelbroth said:
Edit: Gee, I guess it might be important to mention that ##p## is prime. :facepalm:

Actually, it doesn't matter that p is prime. It's valid for any +ve integer: the square root is either an integer or irrational; it cannot be a proper rational.
 
Thank you, all.
 

Similar threads

Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
12K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K