Pushing a cart, using Newton's Third Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around understanding Newton's Third Law of Motion, particularly in the context of pushing a cart while standing on Earth. Participants explore the implications of force interactions and the role of friction in the observed motion of the cart and the person pushing it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that when pushing a cart, they exert a force on the cart, and simultaneously, the cart exerts an equal and opposite force on them, leading to confusion about the resulting motion.
  • Another participant suggests that while pushing the cart, the person is also pushing against the Earth, which reacts with an equal and opposite force. They highlight that the Earth's mass means it hardly moves, allowing the cart to accelerate instead.
  • A follow-up question arises regarding whether the greater force exerted by the Earth on the person is what causes them to accelerate in the same direction as the cart.
  • Further clarification is sought on why the person must push the Earth harder to maintain contact with the cart, with a participant explaining that if equal forces are applied to both the cart and the Earth, the person would remain stationary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and seek clarification on the mechanics involved, indicating that there is no consensus yet on the nuances of the interaction between the person, the cart, and the Earth.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of mass and force in the context of Newton's laws, but there are unresolved questions regarding the specifics of force application and motion dynamics.

Libohove90
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I am trying to fully understand Newton's Third Law. I am getting there, but there are a few examples that sort of have me scratching my head for a bit.

Me and a cart are stationary, then I decide to push the cart. I exert a force on the cart and simultaneously, the cart exerts an equal and opposite force on me.

If this occurred in space, the cart and I would have went in opposite directions after the push (conservation of momentum), but on the Earth, this is not apparent. I realize the friction of the floor has a role here. Why is it that both the cart and I accelerate in the same direction as I push it?

Can someone clear this up a bit for me? I would gratefully appreciate informative replies :)
 
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Libohove90 said:
I am trying to fully understand Newton's Third Law. I am getting there, but there are a few examples that sort of have me scratching my head for a bit.

Me and a cart are stationary, then I decide to push the cart. I exert a force on the cart and simultaneously, the cart exerts an equal and opposite force on me.

If this occurred in space, the cart and I would have went in opposite directions after the push (conservation of momentum), but on the Earth, this is not apparent. I realize the friction of the floor has a role here. Why is it that both the cart and I accelerate in the same direction as I push it?

Can someone clear this up a bit for me? I would gratefully appreciate informative replies :)

You're not only pushing the cart, you are also pushing the Earth in the opposite direction. Both of them will push back. The Earth is so massive it will hardly move at all, but the cart will move if you push it. To keep contact with the cart you must push the Earth harder, so it will push back harder than the cart, so you will move in the same direction as the cart.
 
willem2 said:
You're not only pushing the cart, you are also pushing the Earth in the opposite direction. Both of them will push back. The Earth is so massive it will hardly move at all, but the cart will move if you push it. To keep contact with the cart you must push the Earth harder, so it will push back harder than the cart, so you will move in the same direction as the cart.

So the fact that the Earth is pushing me more than the cart is, is what causes me to accelerate in the same direction as the cart?

Why must I push the Earth harder to keep contact with the cart?
 
Libohove90 said:
So the fact that the Earth is pushing me more than the cart is, is what causes me to accelerate in the same direction as the cart?

Why must I push the Earth harder to keep contact with the cart?

If you push the cart and the Earth with the same force, you will stay in one place, because the net force on you is 0. The Earth will stay in the same place because it is so massive, but the cart will accelerate. If you keep pushing it, it will roll beyond the reach of your
arms and you can no longer push it.
 

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