Question about entropy=0 in an irreversible process

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ruko15
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Irreversible Process
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the calculation of entropy in irreversible processes, specifically addressing a scenario involving a monatomic gas transitioning between two states. The calculated change in entropy (ΔS) for the given states is zero, which raises questions about the nature of irreversible paths. It is established that while the entropy change for the gas itself may be zero, any irreversible process involving interactions with other systems will result in a net increase in entropy. This aligns with the second law of thermodynamics, confirming that ΔS must be greater than zero when considering the entire system.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the second law of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with entropy calculations in thermodynamics
  • Knowledge of monatomic gas behavior and properties
  • Basic principles of reversible and irreversible processes
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the second law of thermodynamics on real-world processes
  • Explore advanced entropy calculations for various thermodynamic systems
  • Investigate the role of heat reservoirs in thermodynamic processes
  • Learn about the differences between reversible and irreversible processes in detail
USEFUL FOR

Students of thermodynamics, physics educators, and professionals in engineering fields who require a deeper understanding of entropy and its implications in irreversible processes.

Ruko15
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
We learned about calculating entropy in my physics 2 class, and i came up with an example that my professor couldn't answer, so I was hoping someone here could shed some light on this for me.

We learned that change in entropy for an irreversible process be represented by changes in entropy of reversible process as long as both reversible and irreversible paths have the same initial and final states.

so here are my two states for 1 mole of a monatomic gas.
P0=1kPa
V0=1m3
T0=[itex]\frac{500000}{4157}[/itex]K≈120.279K

P=500Pa
V=23/5m3≈1.516m3
T=[itex]\frac{906987}{9950}[/itex]K≈91.154K

These two states lie on a reversible adiabatic path.
Calculating the entropy using (using fractions, instead of approximate values)
ΔS=nCvln[itex](\frac{T}{T0})[/itex]+nRln[itex](\frac{V}{V0})[/itex]
ΔS=[itex](1)(\frac{3}{2})(8.314)ln(\frac{≈120.279}{≈91.154})+(1)(8.314)ln(\frac{≈1.516}{1})[/itex]
ΔS=0

Would this not imply then that any real path between these two states is reversible, or that it is possible for an ireversable path to have a ΔS=0? Both of which we learned were not possible.Is this in the correct place or should it be in Homework & Coursework Questions?
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
For an irreversible process (not path!) ending up in that same state the entropy of something else will increase.

For example, if we allow the gas to free expand to the final volume (an irreversible process), its final temperature will be be the same as the initial temperature. To reach the desired state we could place it in contact with a temperature reservoir at 91.154K. The heat transferred will increase the entropy of that reservoir.

Any irreversible process will end up with ΔS>0, when you include all of the interacting parts.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 60 ·
3
Replies
60
Views
11K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
5K
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
14
Views
1K