Question about excited Helium states

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Rafael
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Excited Helium States
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the excited states of Helium, specifically focusing on the configurations of two electrons in the 1s and 2s orbitals, considering their spin states (parallel and anti-parallel). Participants explore the implications of linear combinations of these states and the effects of electron-electron interactions and fine structure on energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the possible configurations of two electrons in Helium, detailing the anti-parallel and parallel spin states and their corresponding wave functions.
  • Another participant agrees that any linear combination of the four eigenstates will also be an eigenstate with the same energy, but notes that this ignores electron-electron interactions and fine structure.
  • This participant suggests that taking electron interactions into account would require using degenerate perturbation theory, which would affect the energy levels of the states.
  • A later reply questions the implications of perturbation theory for the linear combination presented, noting that it would no longer be an eigenstate and would represent a superposition of different energy eigenstates.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about perturbation theory and its relevance to the discussion, indicating that they have not yet studied it.
  • There is a suggestion that the original participant may not need to worry about perturbation theory at this stage, as it may be beyond the scope of their current studies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of linear combinations of eigenstates but express differing views on the implications of electron interactions and the necessity of perturbation theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific effects of these interactions on the energy of the linear combination presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that the participant's understanding of perturbation theory is incomplete, which may affect their interpretation of the implications for the Helium atom's energy states.

Rafael
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Most of the books I've seen they say that the first excited state of Helium (with two electrons, one in orbital 1s and other in 2s) can have the two electrons with parallel spin (orthohelium) or anti-parallel spin (parahelium).
If ##\operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (n \right )}## represent the state of particle n with spin up, there are the following possible states:

Anti-parallel spin:

##
A \left(\operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (2 \right )} - \operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (2 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (1 \right )}\right) \left(\operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} + \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )}\right)
##

Parallel spin:

##
A \left(\operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} - \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )}\right) \operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (2 \right )}
##

##
A \left(\operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} - \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )}\right) \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (2 \right )}
##

##
A \left(\operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (2 \right )} + \operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (2 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (1 \right )}\right) \left(\operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} - \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )}\right)
##From what I understand, any linear combinations of the above functions also represent two electrons in 1s and 2s orbitals, but if for example i add the first and the four function I get:

##
A \left(\operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (2 \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} - \operatorname{X_{↑}}{\left (2 \right )} \operatorname{X_{↓}}{\left (1 \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{1s}}{\left (r_{2} \right )} \operatorname{Ψ_{2s}}{\left (r_{1} \right )}\right)
##

Becasue I add the Anti-parallel spin function and one of the Parallel spin functions, now I get a function that also represent two electrons in 1s and 2s orbitals, but it is neither parallel or antiparallel.(it's a superposition of both possibilities)

Is this correct or I'm missing something?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes, that is correct - any linear combination of the four eigenstates will also be an eigenstate with the same energy.

But the particular choice you've made in your post is a rather special one. You are ignoring electron-electron interactions and fine structure (effects due to electron spin), but if you were to take those into account, you would in principle need to use degenerate perturbation theory, which involves diagonalizing your degenerate subspace with the perturbed Hamiltonian. But the perturbing Hamiltonian conserves total angular momentum (the sum of the electron spins in this case, since these are /ell=0 states), so you know that the correct basis is the one which are eigenstates of (\mathbf{S}_1 + \mathbf{S}_2)^2 and S^z_1 + S^z_2. The is precisely the basis you've written down, so to leading order we expect the actual Helium atom with electron-electron interactions will actually split these four states into a single nondegenerate state (the first one you've written down) and a threefold degenerate state.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Rafael
king vitamin said:
Yes, that is correct - any linear combination of the four eigenstates will also be an eigenstate with the same energy.

But the particular choice you've made in your post is a rather special one. You are ignoring electron-electron interactions and fine structure (effects due to electron spin), but if you were to take those into account, you would in principle need to use degenerate perturbation theory, which involves diagonalizing your degenerate subspace with the perturbed Hamiltonian. But the perturbing Hamiltonian conserves total angular momentum (the sum of the electron spins in this case, since these are /ell=0 states), so you know that the correct basis is the one which are eigenstates of (\mathbf{S}_1 + \mathbf{S}_2)^2 and S^z_1 + S^z_2. The is precisely the basis you've written down, so to leading order we expect the actual Helium atom with electron-electron interactions will actually split these four states into a single nondegenerate state (the first one you've written down) and a threefold degenerate state.
I'm a bit confused because I have't studied perturbation theory yet. So if we take account of electron repulsion and fine structure, what happens with the linear combination I have writted? Is it impossible for helium? Does it have more energy than the others?
Thanks for the answer.
 
Rafael said:
I'm a bit confused because I have't studied perturbation theory yet.

I'm sorry! I shouldn't have confused you by going beyond what you know. In some courses it is common to study the Helium atom along with perturbation theory, but I can see how the problem you're dealing with could be suited to a first semester quantum course.

Rafael said:
So if we take account of electron repulsion and fine structure, what happens with the linear combination I have writted?

If you take those into account, the linear combination you wrote down won't be an eigenstate anymore, it'll be a superposition of two different eigenstates (its average energy will lie between them). Basically, the first state you wrote down will be an eigenstate with some energy E1, and the other three will all be eigenstates with degenerate energy E2, and you've just taken some superposition of different energy eigenstates.

But anyways, if you have not seen perturbation theory yet perhaps you shouldn't worry about this right now. You can come back to this thread later on and see if what's I've said makes sense once you've worked a little with degenerate perturbation theory.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Rafael

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
893
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K