Question about Gunter Nimtz's experiments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Gunter Nimtz's experiments related to wave propagation and information transfer, particularly in the context of quantum optics. Participants explore the implications of non-linear wave attenuation and its potential for reconstructing information, such as music, while questioning the validity of claims regarding faster-than-light information transfer.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how further experiments have debunked Nimtz's phenomenon and discusses an analogy used by Aephraim Steinberg regarding wavefronts and information transfer.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the mean position of the wave may appear to move faster, individual components of the wave do not carry information faster than their original speed.
  • A different participant expresses curiosity about the claim that partial information can reconstruct a symphony, suggesting that this could imply a method for more effective information transmission.
  • Another participant argues that attenuating a wave does not necessarily result in a loss of information, using the analogy of reducing the volume of music to illustrate that information can still be retained despite attenuation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the implications of Nimtz's experiments and the nature of information transfer. There is no consensus on whether the methods discussed can effectively transmit information faster than conventional means or if they merely represent a different approach to wave manipulation.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various analogies and examples to illustrate their points, but the discussion remains complex with unresolved assumptions about the nature of information and wave behavior.

GTOM
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I've searched, I found something in the archives, and several other places on the net, but i wonder, how further experiments debunked this phenonemon?

I saw this explanation : "Aephraim Steinberg, a quantum optics expert at the University of Toronto, Canada, uses the analogy of a train traveling from Chicago to New York, but dropping off train cars at each station along the way, so that the center of the ever shrinking main train moves forward at each stop; in this way, the speed of the center of the train exceeds the speed of any of the individual cars.[44]"

While i see, this isn't good for sending exact analog information, i fail to see yet, why can't it be used to transfer digital data, when it is enough information, whether something has arrived or not?
 
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You seem to misunderstand Steinberg's explanation.

The wavefront is traveling at the same speed anyway. All Nimtz does is a non-linear attenuation of the tail of a wave. In other words every single car which arrives, arrives at the same time irrespective of whether the other parts of the cars were dropped off (irrespective of whether other parts of the wave were attenuated or not). It is just the mean position of the left-over cars which moves to the front. However any information is necessarily carried by each individual car (to stay inside the analogy), but obviously no information is connected with the center of all of them.

Or as another analogy: For ten days you send one letter each day from europe to the USA. Each takes one day to get there. So within eleven days all of the letters are there. Now you do the same again, but the final five letters get lost along the way. Now all the letters that arrive will already be there after 6 days, but did you send any information faster than before?
 
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Yes, good explanation, however i still wonder on something.

"All Nimtz does is a non-linear attenuation of the tail of a wave."

He claimed, he could reconstruct Mozart's symphony with this method. Where is the cheating?
If partial information can be enough for reconstruction, without previous knowledge about what we should reconstruct, that can be used for more effective information sending, like zipping a document.
 
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GTOM said:
He claimed, he could reconstruct Mozart's symphony with this method. Where is the cheating?
If partial information can be enough for reconstruction, without previous knowledge about what we should reconstruct, that can be used for more effective information sending, like zipping a document.

There is no cheating. Attenuating a wave does not necessarily throw away information. Just imagine the case you are just playing a Metallica record loudly. Now you reduce the volume. You just attenuated the wave, but do not lose any information about the song played. Of course you will lose some fun by listening to a metal song with tuned down volume instead...
 
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