Question about mathematical equality

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical equality presented in Chapter 9 of Jackson's "Classic Electrodynamics." Participants explore the validity of this equality, particularly in the context of integrating by parts and the conditions under which it holds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the mathematical equality related to integrating by parts, indicating uncertainty about its validity.
  • Another participant suggests expressing the current density \(\mathbf{J}\) in Cartesian components and integrating each component separately, assuming \(\mathbf{J}\) approaches zero at infinity.
  • A third participant shares a resource that elaborates on the topic, indicating it has helped them understand the equality better.
  • It is noted that the equality depends on the condition that \(\nabla \cdot \mathbf{J} = 0\) or \(\frac{d\rho}{dt} = 0\).
  • One participant presents a derivation involving an arbitrary constant vector and discusses the implications of integrating over the entire space, emphasizing that the equality holds regardless of whether \(\mathbf{j}\) is a solenoidal field.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the context in which \(\mathbf{j}\) appears, suggesting a need for clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which the mathematical equality holds, with some emphasizing the necessity of specific assumptions while others argue for its general validity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention assumptions about the behavior of \(\mathbf{J}\) at infinity and the implications of the divergence condition, which may affect the validity of the equality discussed.

Mr. Rho
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Hi there, I am reading Chapter 9 of Jackson Classic Electrodynamics 3rd edition, and I don't see why this equality is true, it says "integrating by parts", but I still don't know... any help?

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/9201/4WYcXs.png
 
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Write \mathbf J as the sum of its Cartesian components and then write the integral as the sum of three integrals of the three Cartesian components. Then integrate by parts each integral, but the J_x w.r.t. to x and so on! If you consider the integrals to be from -\infty to \infty and take \mathbf J to be zero at infinities, you'll get what you want.
 
That equality depends on div J=0 (or d\rho/dt=0).
 
Just my derivation. For an arbitrary constant vector ##\vec{n}## we have
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot [(\vec{n} \cdot \vec{x}) \vec{j}]=(\vec{n} \cdot \vec{x}) \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j} + \vec{n} \cdot \vec{j}.$$
Now integrate this over the whole space and assume that ##\vec{j}## goes to 0 quickly enough at infinity (or most realistically that it has compact support). Then the left-hand side vanishes, because it's a divergence, and thus can be transformed to a surface integral, which vanishes at infinity, if ##\vec{j}## vanishes quickly enough. This implies
$$\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} \; \vec{n} \cdot \vec{j} = -\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} \; (\vec{n} \cdot \vec{x} ) \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}.$$
Now use for ##\vec{n}## the three basis vectors of a cartesian reference frame, and you see that the vector equation stated by Jackson holds.

It's independent of whether ##\vec{j}## is a solenoidal field or not. Of course in the case of stationary currents it must be one, but the integral identity is generally valid.
 
Sorry about that. I was thinking cases where j appears with other variables.
 

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