Question about partial derivatives.

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of mixed partial derivatives for a multivariable function defined in terms of polar coordinates. Participants are exploring the application of the chain rule in this context and comparing their results with a textbook answer.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a function z = x² + 2y² and attempts to find the mixed partial derivative ∂²z/(∂y∂t) using the chain rule, expressing confusion over the discrepancy between their result and the textbook answer.
  • Another participant suggests that the mixed partial derivative can be computed by differentiating z with respect to y first and then with respect to t, without needing to differentiate with respect to x.
  • A participant questions whether the dependence of x on t and y affects the differentiation process, suggesting that the textbook's answer may require substituting rcos(t) = ycot(t) into the function before differentiation.
  • Another participant points out a potential inconsistency in the notation used for the mixed partial derivatives, highlighting the importance of the order of differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct approach to calculating the mixed partial derivative, indicating that there is no consensus on the method or the resulting answer.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity regarding the treatment of variables and the order of differentiation, which may affect the outcome of the calculations. Participants have not resolved these issues, and assumptions about variable dependencies remain unclarified.

BigFlorida
Messages
41
Reaction score
1
I have a multivariable function z = x2 + 2y2 such that x = rcos(t) and y = rsin(t). I was asked to find
upload_2015-10-6_20-22-15.png
(I know the d's should technically be curly, but I am not the best at LaTeX). I thought this would just be a simple application of chain rule:
2/(∂y∂t) = (∂z/∂x)(ⅆx/ⅆt) + (∂z/∂y)(ⅆy/ⅆt)
but apparently this is not the case. Could someone perhaps explain why this is not the right thing to do. When I did it this way I got 2x = 2rcos(t) = 2ycot(t) as my answer, but my book says the answer is -2y2cot(t)csc2(t) and I have no clue what they are doing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
BigFlorida said:
I have a multivariable function z = x2 + 2y2 such that x = rcos(t) and y = rsin(t). I was asked to find View attachment 89836 (I know the d's should technically be curly, but I am not the best at LaTeX). I thought this would just be a simple application of chain rule:
2/(∂y∂t) = (∂z/∂x)(ⅆx/ⅆt) + (∂z/∂y)(ⅆy/ⅆt)
but apparently this is not the case. Could someone perhaps explain why this is not the right thing to do. When I did it this way I got 2x = 2rcos(t) = 2ycot(t) as my answer, but my book says the answer is -2y2cot(t)csc2(t) and I have no clue what they are doing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
The derivative, ## \frac {∂^2z}{∂y∂t} ## is known as a mixed partial derivative. Since the expression contains only the function z differentiated w.r.t. y and t, there is no need to differentiate z w.r.t. x. You may differentiate z w.r.t. y first, then w.r.t. t next.
 
@SteamKing But does it not matter that x is a function of t, and (through the relation with r) a function of y? And the only way the book's answer makes sense is if you substituted rcos(t) = ycot(t) into x^2 then differentiate that, treating 2y^2 as a constant, which knocks it out completely.
 
BigFlorida said:
I have a multivariable function z = x2 + 2y2 such that x = rcos(t) and y = rsin(t). I was asked to find View attachment 89836 (I know the d's should technically be curly, but I am not the best at LaTeX). I thought this would just be a simple application of chain rule:
2/(∂y∂t) = (∂z/∂x)(ⅆx/ⅆt) + (∂z/∂y)(ⅆy/ⅆt)
but apparently this is not the case. Could someone perhaps explain why this is not the right thing to do. When I did it this way I got 2x = 2rcos(t) = 2ycot(t) as my answer, but my book says the answer is -2y2cot(t)csc2(t) and I have no clue what they are doing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
I'm confused as to what you're doing. In the first paragraph, you write ##\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t \partial y}##, but later you write the opposite order, ##\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial y \partial t}##. The first mixed partial is the same as this: ##\frac{\partial }{\partial t} \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}##. In the second mixed partial, the differentiation occurs in the opposite order.

Here's the LaTeX I used, tweaked a bit so that it won't render:
##\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t \partial y}##
##\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial y \partial t}##
##\frac{\partial }{\partial t} \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}##
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K