Question in Electric field of a moving point charge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electric field generated by a moving point charge, particularly focusing on the implications of the charge's velocity on the electric and magnetic fields. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the electric field, the physical meaning of certain terms, and the interpretation of results from a textbook regarding the behavior of the fields at different velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces a formula for the electric field of a moving point charge and questions the physical meaning of the term \vec u = c\hat{\eta}-\vec v.
  • Post 2 suggests there may be misprints in the initial formula and clarifies the roles of \vec{\eta} and \vec{u} in the context of the charge's motion.
  • Post 3 expresses that while the formula appears correct, the term \vec{u} may not hold significant physical meaning, serving more as a shorthand in the equation.
  • Post 4 raises questions about statements from a textbook regarding the behavior of the electric field at high velocities, specifically how the field is altered in different directions due to the charge's motion.
  • Post 5 reiterates the confusion regarding the textbook statements and provides a detailed breakdown of two different methods for calculating the magnetic field, noting discrepancies between the results.
  • Post 6 emphasizes the observation that as the charge's velocity increases, the electric field compresses in the direction of motion and expands perpendicular to it, while also seeking clarification on the nature of the electric field at high speeds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physical significance of certain terms in the equations and the interpretation of the textbook statements. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the results or the discrepancies noted in the calculations of the magnetic field.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential misprints and inconsistencies in the units of the equations presented. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific definitions of terms used in the context of moving charges.

yungman
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The electric field at a point P pointed by the position vector [itex]\vec r \;\hbox {, from a moving point charge pointed by a position vector }\;\vec w(t_r)\;[/itex] at the retarded time is given by:

[tex]\vec E_{(\vec r,t)} = \frac q {4\pi\epsilon_0}\frac{\eta}{(\vec{\eta}\cdot \vec u)^3}[(c^2-v^2)\vec u + \vec{\eta}\times(\vec u\times \vec a)][/tex]

[tex]\hbox{Where }\; \vec {\eta}=\vec r -\vec w(t_r) \;,\;\; \vec u = c\hat{\eta}-\vec v\;,\;\; \vec v =\frac{d \vec w(t_r)}{dt} \;\hbox { is the velocity vector of point charge } \;,\; \vec a = \frac{d \vec v}{dt}[/tex]

My question is what is the physical meaning of [tex]\vec u = c\hat{\eta}-\vec v[/tex]
 
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There may be some misprints in the above, the units don't seem to be consistent. Anyway, η is supposed to be the position vector of the field point relative to the retarded position of the particle, and u (up to an added factor of c) is supposed to be the position of the field point relative to the current particle position. 'Current position' meaning that you blithely ignore the fact that the particle is accelerating, and extrapolate to where you anticipate it would be at the present time if it had just kept moving with constant velocity.
 
The formula looks right to me, but it is not in a familiar notation.
I don't think u has any physical significance, but is just a short hand way of writing the formula instead of keeping \eta and v separately.
 
Thank for the answer. I have more questions regarding to an example.

My questions are what the book said after working out the solution that I have no issue of finding. The original question is to find E and B at a field point pointed by r due to a moving point charge pointed by w(t_r) at retard time moving at a constant velocity v.


For constant velocity:

[tex]\vec E_{(\vec r, t)} = \frac q {4\pi\epsilon_0}\frac {\eta}{(\vec{\eta}\cdot\vec u)^3} [(c^2-v^2)\vec u ][/tex]

Where

[tex]\vec{\eta} = \vec r -\vec w(t_r), \; \vec u=c\hat{\eta}-\vec v\;,\; \vec v = \frac { d \vec w(t_r)}{dt_r}[/tex]

I have no problem finding the answer:

[tex]\vec E_{(\vec r, t)} = \frac q {4\pi\epsilon_0} \frac {1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}} {\left (1-\frac{v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta \right )^{\frac 3 2}} \frac {\hat R}{R^2} \;\hbox { where }\; \vec R = \vec r –t\vec(t_r)[/tex]





Below are the three statements directly quoted by the book and I have no idea what they mean:

[BOOK]

1) Because of the [tex]sin^2\theta[/tex] in the denominator, the field of a fast-moving charge is flattened out like a pancake in the direction perpendicular to the motion.

2) In the forward and backward directions, E is reduced by a factor [tex](1 - {\frac {v^2}{c^2} )[/tex] relative to the field of a charge at rest;

3) In the perpendicular direction it is enhanced by a factor [tex]\frac 1 {\sqrt { \left (1 - {\frac {v^2}{c^2}\right )}}[/tex]

[END BOOK]






Also in finding B

[tex]\vec B =\frac 1 c \hat{\eta}\times \vec E = \frac 1 c \hat{\eta} \times \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2}\right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta \right )^{\frac 3 2}} \frac {\vec R}{R^3}[/tex]

In two different ways, I get different answer.


1)
[tex]\hat {\eta} \times \vec R = \frac {1}{\eta} [(\vec r -t_r \vec v)\times(c\frac{\vec{\eta}}{\eta}-t\vec v)]=\frac {1}{\eta}[-\frac {ct_r}{\eta} \vec r\times \vec v -t(\vec r \times \vec v) -\frac{ct_r}{\eta}(\vec v\times \vec r)]=-\frac {t} {\eta} (\vec r \times \vec v)[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow\;\vec B = \frac 1 c \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} \right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\eta \left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta\right )^{\frac 3 2}R^3} t\vec v \times \vec r[/tex]



2)
[tex]\hat{\eta}=\frac{\vec r-t_r\vec v}{\eta}=\frac {(\vec-t\vec v)+(t-t_r)\vec v}{\eta}=\frac {\vec R}{\eta} + \frac {\vec v}{c} \Rightarrow\; \vec B = \frac 1 c \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} \right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\eta \left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta\right )^{\frac 3 2}R^3} \vec v \times \vec r[/tex]


Notice a difference of t between the two method? I cannot resolve this.
 
Last edited:
yungman said:
Thank for the answer. I have more questions regarding to an example.

My questions are what the book said after working out the solution that I have no issue of finding. The original question is to find E and B at a field point pointed by r due to a moving point charge pointed by w(t_r) at retard time moving at a constant velocity v.


For constant velocity:

[tex]\vec E_{(\vec r, t)} = \frac q {4\pi\epsilon_0}\frac {\eta}{(\vec{\eta}\cdot\vec u)^3} [(c^2-v^2)\vec u ][/tex]

Where

[tex]\vec{\eta} = \vec r -\vec w(t_r), \; \vec u=c\hat{\eta}-\vec v\;,\; \vec v = \frac { d \vec w(t_r)}{dt_r}[/tex]

I have no problem finding the answer:

[tex]\vec E_{(\vec r, t)} = \frac q {4\pi\epsilon_0} \frac {1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}} {\left (1-\frac{v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta \right )^{\frac 3 2}} \frac {\hat R}{R^2} \;\hbox { where }\; \vec R = \vec r –t\vec(t_r)[/tex]





Below are the three statements directly quoted by the book and I have no idea what they mean:

[BOOK]

1) Because of the [tex]sin^2\theta[/tex] in the denominator, the field of a fast-moving charge is flattened out like a pancake in the direction perpendicular to the motion.

2) In the forward and backward directions, E is reduced by a factor [tex](1 - {\frac {v^2}{c^2} )[/tex] relative to the field of a charge at rest;

3) In the perpendicular direction it is enhanced by a factor [tex]\frac 1 {\sqrt { \left (1 - {\frac {v^2}{c^2}\right )}}[/tex]

[END BOOK]

Just plot it out. It's obvious that at zero velocity the field is uniformly distributed. As the charge increases in velocity (ignoring the effects of acceleration) then we see that the field distribution compresses along the direction of propagation and increases in the plane normal to the direction of propagation. The other two are simply the limit conditions.


yungman said:
Also in finding B

[tex]\vec B =\frac 1 c \hat{\eta}\times \vec E = \frac 1 c \hat{\eta} \times \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2}\right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta \right )^{\frac 3 2}} \frac {\vec R}{R^3}[/tex]

In two different ways, I get different answer.


1)
[tex]\hat {\eta} \times \vec R = \frac {1}{\eta} [(\vec r -t_r \vec v)\times(c\frac{\vec{\eta}}{\eta}-t\vec v)]=\frac {1}{\eta}[-\frac {ct_r}{\eta} \vec r\times \vec v -t(\vec r \times \vec v) -\frac{ct_r}{\eta}(\vec v\times \vec r)]=-\frac {t} {\eta} (\vec r \times \vec v)[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow\;\vec B = \frac 1 c \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} \right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\eta \left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta\right )^{\frac 3 2}R^3} t\vec v \times \vec r[/tex]



2)
[tex]\hat{\eta}=\frac{\vec r-t_r\vec v}{\eta}=\frac {(\vec-t\vec v)+(t-t_r)\vec v}{\eta}=\frac {\vec R}{\eta} + \frac {\vec v}{c} \Rightarrow\; \vec B = \frac 1 c \frac {q\left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} \right )}{4\pi\epsilon_0\eta \left ( 1-\frac {v^2}{c^2} sin^2\theta\right )^{\frac 3 2}R^3} t\vec v \times \vec r[/tex]


Notice a difference of t between the two method? I cannot resolve this.

No.
 
Born2bwire said:
Just plot it out. It's obvious that at zero velocity the field is uniformly distributed. As the charge increases in velocity (ignoring the effects of acceleration) then we see that the field distribution compresses along the direction of propagation and increases in the plane normal to the direction of propagation. The other two are simply the limit conditions.




No.


Thanks for your reply,


Can you explain a little bit more in detail about why in higth rate of speed, the electric field is perpendicular to the direction of the charge particle? I understand in stationary situation, the field is a central field that radiates out to all direction...like a ball. Aas speed foes up, the field at the front get compressed. But I cannot see how the field become like a circular disk with the normal being the direction of the moving charge.


Regarding to the magnetic field, what do you mean by "No"? I had a typo and I corrected it in my original post, you can see there is a difference of t in the two method.
 
Anyone please? Something is very wrong with this site. The Latex is so slow!
 
yungman said:
Anyone please? Something is very wrong with this site. The Latex is so slow!

Huh?
 
Drakkith said:
Huh?

I resolve the problem. I have to get Firefox 4 and it is a lot better now.

So anyone can help my questions? Please!

Alan
 
  • #10
Like I said, just plot it out. Plot the function,

[tex]f(\theta) = \frac{1-\alpha}{1-\alpha\sin\theta}[/tex]

As a polar plot and adjust \alpha from 0 to 1. But we can already see that for alpha that is non-zero that the function approaches unity at \theta = \pi/2. So at \theta = 0, the function is 1-\alpha and at \theta = \pi/2, the function is 1. So the more relativistic you travel, the smaller the function becomes at \theta = 0. So assuming that this is a simple smooth curve, we can infer that the function increases to unity as we approach \pi/2. So as we go faster, the field becomes compressed along the direction of propagation (\theta = 0).
 

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