Question on electron existence comparing with others

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    Electron Existence
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence of electrons and the analogy drawn between the belief in electrons and the belief in ghosts, exploring the nature of evidence in physics and the limitations of human perception. It includes theoretical and conceptual considerations regarding the detection of subatomic particles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that repeatable experimental evidence supports the existence of electrons, contrasting this with the lack of evidence for ghosts.
  • Others suggest that 'seeing' is not the only valid form of evidence, citing examples such as the detection of individual electrons through shot noise in electronic devices.
  • A participant mentions that the human eye is a poor detector compared to scientific instruments, raising questions about the reliability of human perception in scientific contexts.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of human senses and how they relate to the understanding of physics, with references to a book that explores this relationship.
  • Some participants express humor and camaraderie in their responses, discussing the nature of human vision and its implications in a light-hearted manner.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that evidence for electrons exists and that human perception has limitations, but there is no consensus on the analogy between electrons and ghosts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of this analogy.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of human senses and the challenges in detecting subatomic particles, but these points are not fully resolved or agreed upon.

Sitakalyani
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No physicist has ever seen an electron. Yet, all physicists believe in the existence of electrons. An intelligent but superstitious man advances this analogy to argue that 'ghosts' exist even though no one has seen one. How will you refute his argument?
 
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There is repeatable experimental evidence that support the existence of electrons. There is (so far) no such evidence that requires the existece of ghosts to be well described.
 
Sitakalyani said:
No physicist has ever seen an electron.
You have never seen the back of your neck (directly) but you have lots of evidence that it exists.
'Seeing' is not the only good evidence for the existence of the electron.
You can 'hear' individual electrons in the so-called shot noise that can be heard in valves that were used in sensitive valve audio amplifiers. If you calculate the rate of arrival of electrons at an Anode for a very low current, the grainy noise that can be heard in the background of the sound programme is at the rate that is predicted by the charges carried by individual electrons. Electric Charge is quantised.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Seeing' is not the only good evidence for the existence of the electron.

:oldsurprised::oldsurprised:

Actually in QM seeing never is a good evidence.
 
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Sitakalyani said:
No physicist has ever seen an electron. Yet, all physicists believe in the existence of electrons. An intelligent but superstitious man advances this analogy to argue that 'ghosts' exist even though no one has seen one. How will you refute his argument?

I wrote this article JUST for you!

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/see-an-electron-lately/

Maybe I’ll add this thread to the list.

Zz.
 
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Nice article @ZapperZ

But the link(bold) is empty:

“And speaking of the human eyes as detectors, anyone who has done anything with detection instruments can tell you that the eyes is a very bad detector in many cases. Sure, it has a very high spatial resolution, but man, it sucks everywhere else. For example, look at this figure that shows the sensitivity of the human eye over a range of frequency and also its response sensitivity."

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/see-an-electron-lately/
 
@ZapperZ Great article. Amazing that we have survived with such rubbish vision! :))
But the software that goes with it is quite a bit more advanced than anything that comes with those other devices. And we can walk and chew gum at the same time. That list made me think (yet again) of Top Trumps. :smile:
 
This book gives a lot of insight on the relation between human sense organs and physics. A considerable portion of it is is viewable in Google Preview.

Although much less technical ie less equations.

http://iopscience.iop.org/book/978-1-6270-5675-5

Makes me want to buy it!
 
  • #10
sophiecentaur said:
rubbish vision

Actually, each of our capabilities like tactile, of olfactory,vision, sense are limited when their full dimensions are exposed with the help of Physics/Chemistry.

I wonder what "god of all creations" was thinking?
 
  • #11
e-pie said:
Actually, each of our capabilities like tactile, of olfactory,vision, sense are limited when their full dimensions are exposed with the help of Physics/Chemistry.

I wonder what "god of all creations" was thinking?
I guess he farmed the design out to the company with the lowest quote. A bit like Nasa.
 
  • #12
Haha! :woot: Nice one.
 
  • #13
The article was originally part of my blog on PF. when that was discontinued, it was ported over as an Insight article and a few of the links went poof! I will have to find them again and get an admin or Mentor to edit the article to insert the links.

Zz.
 
  • #14
No harm done for the missing link. Rest is still good!
 

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