Questions about friction losses in an electric motor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around friction losses in electric motors, focusing on definitions, measurement methods, and their impact on power output when lifting objects. It encompasses theoretical and practical aspects of friction in motor operation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek clarification on what friction loss is and how it can be measured or calculated.
  • One participant suggests that friction losses arise from parts rubbing against each other and air interaction with moving parts.
  • Another participant notes that windage is always present unless the motor operates in a vacuum, and highlights bearings as a significant source of friction.
  • It is proposed that measuring the no-load speed of an induction motor can indicate friction losses, as the difference from synchronous speed reflects these losses.
  • Concerns are raised about bearing maintenance, including the effects of over-lubrication, mixing incompatible greases, and ensuring proper internal clearance on friction losses.
  • A participant humorously suggests that investing in better bearings could mitigate friction issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and effort in addressing the questions posed. While some points about friction sources and measurement methods are discussed, there is no consensus on the best approach or solutions to the issues raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the assumptions behind their claims, and there are unresolved details regarding the measurement techniques and the specific conditions under which friction losses occur.

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1) What is friction loss / are friction losses?

2) How can it be determined / measured / calculated / figured out?

3) How does it affect the power output (force * speed) of an electric motor when an electric motor is moving / lifting objects? Why does it have such affects?
 
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What effort did you make to answer these basic questions for yourself before asking others to invest their effort ?
 
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In short, two sources to consider are parts rubbing against each other, and interaction of air with the moving parts.
Steve Mould has a nice video about sources of friction losses in a fidget spinner.
 
As ScottDave mentioned, windage is always present unless the motor runs in a vacuum. The other big friction source is the bearings. Even the very best bearings always have some friction.

As to how to see/measure the effect of friction, assuming we are talking about an induction motor, measure the no-load speed. With no external load, and in the absence of friction, the no-load speed would be synchronous speed. Since friction is always present, the speed difference between synchronous speed and no-load speed is the evidence of friction losses.
 
Dr.D said:
The other big friction source is the bearings. Even the very best bearings always have some friction.
This article, Wind 'em Up and Let 'em Go, from ecmweb.com give three things concerning bearing friction losses.
Over lubrication of bearings will increase friction losses and shorten bearing life.

Mixing incompatible greases will increase friction losses and impair lubrication.

Ensure that bearings have the same internal clearance as original bearings. Decreasing the clearances could increase the friction losses.

jim hardy said:
What effort did you make to answer these basic questions for yourself before asking others to invest their effort ?
Ditto. But for the other readers, I invested a little effort. :redface:
 
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