Questions about superposition of two antennas

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    Antennas Superposition
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the experimental investigation of the superposition principle applied to two antennas. Participants explore the behavior of magnetic field strengths generated by individual and combined antennas, focusing on discrepancies observed in measurements across different positions and orientations. The scope includes experimental methodology and technical challenges related to antenna coupling and measurement techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment measuring magnetic field strengths from two antennas, noting that the combined field does not always match the expected vector sum of the individual fields.
  • Another participant questions the comparison method, asking for clarification on whether the discrepancies arise when comparing individual antennas or the combined field to a single antenna's field.
  • Some participants suggest that variations in coupling coefficients between the antennas and the measurement device may be affecting results.
  • There are inquiries about the specific type of antennas used, their orientation, and the distance from the measuring device, with suggestions that these factors could influence the measurements.
  • One participant proposes that separating the antennas further might reduce coupling effects and allow for clearer observation of superposition.
  • Another participant raises the possibility of using polarization to isolate the antennas and suggests mounting them at right angles to each other to improve measurement accuracy.
  • Concerns are expressed about the non-isotropic nature of the magnetic fields produced by the antennas, which may complicate the expected additive behavior.
  • Participants discuss the importance of ensuring that the measurement setup accurately reflects the theoretical expectations of superposition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the causes of the observed discrepancies, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons or solutions. Multiple competing hypotheses regarding coupling effects, measurement techniques, and antenna orientation remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in their experimental setup, including the fixed frequency of operation, the orientation of antennas, and the influence of the measurement device's design on the results. The discussion highlights the complexity of accurately measuring magnetic fields in this context.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in experimental physics, antenna design, and electromagnetic theory, particularly in the context of superposition and field measurements.

  • #31
ffjonas said:
Thanks for the quick reply.

The two transmitting antennas are theoretically in phase. However, there is a very little difference in phase due to limitation of the hardware.

The receiver antenna does have 3D coils which are oriented orthogonally.

I'm talking about the phase of the field, not the antennas. Do you have a setup that can actually measure phase or are you limited to magnitude? Because if you are only measuring field magnitude and direction you can't expect to superposition to work unless you can figure out the relative phase difference between the fields at that point. But I am at a loss on how you could do that because the coupling of the antennas throws things off.

EDIT: Well I guess a first-order approximation of the phase difference would be to measure the relative path lengths of your measuring point between the two antennas. You could then calculate the relative phase shift roughly by the path difference but this neglects the secondary effects of the coupling between antennas. This requires of course identical antennas and that they be excited with signals that have the same phase.

EDIT EDIT: The above would work best if you are doing far-field measurements. For near-field measurements I do not think that it would work. Heck, I'm not quite sure if it would work well in the far-field since the calculations we do for far-field radiation still take into account the phase shift over distance between observation and source.
 
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  • #32
B2bw
I'm glad someone else has picked up on the practicalities of this experiment. It needs some serious RF knowhow to get over some of the basic problems that seem to be arising.
The frequency he's operating at and the distances he's using would make phase / distance pretty small.
Also, if he doesn't operate with the transmit antennae having patterns that are symmetrical in the plane of the paper, he's got yet another imponderable.
There is also a question of the receive probe. Is it a real 'probe' or is it yet another (possible) resonant antenna?
I can't be sure how much of this that ffj is taking on board. I think it's harder than he realizes. Possibly his supervisor hasn't seen all the factors either. It wouldn't be the first time.
 

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