Qusetion about dynamic emitter resistance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of BJTs (Bipolar Junction Transistors) in the context of calculating input and output impedance, specifically focusing on the role of intrinsic emitter resistance (Rbe) and its relationship with the term beta+1 in various circuit configurations, such as emitter followers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the intrinsic emitter resistance Rbe should be multiplied by beta+1 when calculating output impedance in an emitter follower configuration, noting discrepancies in different references.
  • Another participant provides a formula for input voltage in a circuit with an unbypassed emitter resistor, suggesting that the base-emitter junction and the emitter resistor are in series, complicating the analysis.
  • A later reply asserts that neither Rbe nor the external emitter resistance should be multiplied by beta+1 for the output impedance of an emitter follower, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the topology.
  • One participant corrects a previous statement, clarifying that for the emitter follower, the output impedance is Rbe plus Rsource divided by beta+1.
  • Another participant agrees with the clarification and suggests that external emitter resistance RE may also be included in parallel if the load is separate from RE.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of intrinsic emitter resistance and its multiplication by beta+1 in output impedance calculations. There is no consensus on the correct approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the proper application of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference different sources and interpretations, indicating possible misinterpretations or misunderstandings of circuit topologies. The discussion highlights the complexity of analyzing BJTs and the nuances in calculating impedance.

bitrex
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I have a question about the nodal equations of BJTs - when analyzing a circuit to find out the input impedance, output impedance etc. is the term representing the intrinsic emitter resistance, Rbe (that is approximately 26mv/Ic) multiplied by the term beta+1? I'm looking at two references, and in one of them the output impedance of an emitter follower is calculated with the intrinsic emitter resistance and the external resistor both multiplied by beta+1, and another just has the external emitter resistance multiplied by beta+1 and not Rbe.
 
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You might be asking about amplifiers where they have an unbypassed emitter resistor and take the output from a collector resistor.

Call I the input signal current. (not the bias current)
The input voltage in that case is I * base emitter resistance plus ( I * (Hfe +1)) times RE
where RE is the emitter resistor.
Looks complicated but it is just saying the base emitter junction and the emitter resistor are in series. The the base emitter junction has I going through it and the emitter resistor has this current plus an amplified version of it.

Now if the emitter resistor is more than 100 ohms or so, the amplified current through it will make the voltage across the base emitter junction negligible so you can simplify things by ignoring it. This leads to the nice approximation that the gain of such an amplifier is equal to the collector resistance divided by the emitter resistance almost regardless of the transistor used.
 
bitrex said:
I have a question about the nodal equations of BJTs - when analyzing a circuit to find out the input impedance, output impedance etc. is the term representing the intrinsic emitter resistance, Rbe (that is approximately 26mv/Ic) multiplied by the term beta+1? I'm looking at two references, and in one of them the output impedance of an emitter follower is calculated with the intrinsic emitter resistance and the external resistor both multiplied by beta+1, and another just has the external emitter resistance multiplied by beta+1 and not Rbe.

Both are wrong (or you are mis-interpreting or mis-understanding the topology). For the output impedance of an emitter follower neither of the mentioned resistances should be multipied by beta+1.
 
You are right, UART - I mistyped. In the case of the emitter follower the output impedance is just Rbe + Rsource / B + 1.
 
Yes that's correct bitrex (and possibly also including the external emitter resistance RE in parallel in the case where the load is separate to RE).
 

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