Radiation Heat Pump: Is It Possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility of a radiation heat pump, exploring the concept of manipulating electromagnetic radiation to transfer heat from a cold body to a hot body. Participants debate the theoretical and practical implications of such a system, touching on thermodynamic principles and the nature of radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if radiation from a hot body could be prevented from reaching a cold body while allowing radiation from the cold body to reach the hot body, it could function as a heat pump.
  • Another participant challenges this idea, stating that it is difficult to create an optical system capable of deflecting all infrared wavelengths from a sphere to avoid a central sphere.
  • It is noted that even if such a system could be created, the optical system would heat up and radiate energy to the cold body, negating the intended effect.
  • A participant suggests that for the cold body to effectively radiate, it would need to be at a significantly high temperature, such as 1500 degrees Celsius.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the second law of thermodynamics, suggesting that current understanding may be limiting innovative thinking.
  • Another participant asserts that a low-temperature object cannot radiate energy to a higher temperature object, referencing the second law of thermodynamics as a fundamental principle.
  • A later reply dismisses the skepticism towards the second law, indicating that such beliefs do not align with established physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the validity of the second law of thermodynamics and the feasibility of the proposed radiation heat pump concept. There is no consensus on the possibility of bending radiation or the implications of thermodynamic laws.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of radiation and thermodynamic principles, which remain unresolved. The feasibility of creating an optical system to manipulate radiation is also questioned without definitive conclusions.

philrainey
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if everything emits radiation, if you can stop the radiation from a hot body to a cold one but let the radiation from the cold to the hot you would have a type of heat pump.if you had a sphere (the hot body )with a vacuum in it and a relativey small cold body in the middle perhaps the electromagnetic radiation from the sphere to the middle cold body can be bent so that it misses the cold body. Is this just silly thinking? what do you think?
 
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Are you going to tell me why it dosn't work, is it that we can't really bend radiation?
 
It would be tricky to make an optical system that could deflect all infrared wavelengths from a sphere to miss a sphere in the centre.
BUT even assuming you could, the optical system would itself heat up to the same temperature as the outer sphere - and then it would radiate just as much heat to the inner cold sphere.
 
I know that the cold body would have to be relatively hot to our tempertures say 1500 degree C as otherwise the area of it would have to be huge to radiate any decent amount of radiation. It would be a heat pump in the higher tempertures. Why will this not work? Simple terms please not high physics.
 
thankyou mgb phys, I take it we have no other way to bend eletromagnetic radiation other than refraction or positioning black holes around it.
 
thats the thing you see I don't believe the second law of thermodynamics , I think we just have not discovered how to do it. In fact I think people believing this "law" is hindering thinking.
 
You are entitled to believe whatever you want - but that isn't physics and so there is nothing to discuss here.

Please don't waste your life chasing ghosts.
 

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