Radio Attenuation Rate and Magnetized Iron Mesh

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the attenuation of 5G radio waves when interacting with magnetized iron mesh. Participants explore the implications of magnetization on electromagnetic wave properties, particularly in the context of radio frequency absorption and attenuation. The conversation includes references to scientific literature and previous observations regarding the effects of magnetic fields on electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether magnetization would affect electromagnetic waves, with one noting that aluminum mesh does not demonstrate attenuation performance for 5G waves.
  • There is a reference to a study suggesting that magnetized materials can influence electromagnetic wave properties, prompting inquiries about the potential effects on attenuation rates.
  • One participant mentions that previous observations indicate cooperating magnetic fields, such as those from neodymium magnets, have no effect on electromagnetic waves, leading to the assumption that magnetizing iron mesh may not alter its attenuation rate.
  • Another participant reflects on a published paper indicating that a new magnet showed radio absorption at a much higher frequency than 5G, expressing skepticism about the relevance of this finding to the current discussion.
  • There is a suggestion that the local magnetic field might interact with the motion of free electrons in the metal, potentially contributing to the observed effects in the referenced study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the impact of magnetization on electromagnetic wave attenuation. While some suggest that magnetization has no effect, others reference studies that indicate potential interactions, leaving the discussion unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific studies and observations, but there are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the applicability of findings from higher frequency bands to 5G radio waves. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions of attenuation and the nature of electromagnetic interactions.

EleSuki
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The wavelength of 5G radio waves is smaller than that of 4G, and even a gap of 1 mm or so such as aluminum mesh fabric can slip through, so it is said that attenuation performance cannot be demonstrated. However, I wondered what would happen if the article was made of iron mesh magnetized by a magnetizer. Can 5G radio waves slip through even magnetized iron mesh in a prepared manner?
 
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Why do you think magnetization would have any effect on the EM wave?
 
Thanks for the replies, I will try to get back to you on this one. Oh, I was also writing this topic in the hope of gaining scientific knowledge, but if it is inappropriate, please delete this one as well.

I read a post saying that aluminum mesh is not magnetic and iron mesh is magnetic and therefore has a higher attenuation rate of electromagnetic waves, so I was wondering if the properties of the electromagnetic waves themselves would change if the iron mesh fabric was given the properties of a magnet.

https://www.jst.go.jp/pr/announce/20120905-2/index.html
  • (c) Schematic of millimeter wave polarization plane rotation induced by irradiating a magnetized sample with millimeter waves. This ferrite magnet affects the magnetic field component of the electromagnetic wave.
As mentioned in the presentation here, magnets can affect the properties of electromagnetic waves. Therefore, I am interested to know if electromagnetic waves are also attenuated by magnetic forces or magnetic fields.
 
Thanks. I would appreciate it if you could try to translate the page on ChatGPT or DeepL if possible. But I think that would also be a hassle.

I was looking for a similar topic in an English-speaking forum or article discussing what I wanted to know:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...radio-waves-from-forcing-two-magnets-together

It has been observed that cooperating magnetic fields, such as neodymium magnets, have no effect on electromagnetic waves. Then, it seems to be safe to assume that imparting the characteristics of a magnet to iron mesh fabric will have no effect on the attenuation rate at all. I have solved the problem myself, but as always, if there is someone who can think with me, I will be able to get to the desired information. Thank you very much for your help.
 
EleSuki said:
I would appreciate it if you could try to translate the page on ChatGPT or DeepL if possible.
We discourage the use of AI chatbots for technical tasks at PF. I'll try to use Google Translate to see what some parts of the paper says.

EleSuki said:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...radio-waves-from-forcing-two-magnets-together

It has been observed that cooperating magnetic fields, such as neodymium magnets, have no effect on electromagnetic waves. Then, it seems to be safe to assume that imparting the characteristics of a magnet to iron mesh fabric will have no effect on the attenuation rate at all. I have solved the problem myself, but as always, if there is someone who can think with me, I will be able to get to the desired information. Thank you very much for your help.
I only looked at the first sentence or two of the first answer in that PSE thread, and I agree that there should be no effect on the EM from any magnetization. As it says, it is the free electrons (and skin depth) of the metal shielding that provides the shielding effect for EM.
 
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Thank you. I am not a scientist and had only skimmed the published paper, but I read it again properly. It seems that the new magnet shown in this paper showed radio absorption in the 220 gigahertz band of millimeter waves. However, the frequency band of 5G radio waves is much lower, so I don't think it is as realistic as I had thought.
I think they must have made a very strong magnet, but in any case, it was good to learn that magnets have no effect on EM.
 
EleSuki said:
new magnet shown in this paper showed radio absorption in the 220 gigahertz band of millimeter waves.
Yikes, that's really high frequency. Maybe the local B-field is doing something with the motion of the free electrons in the metal to provide that effect. I'll try to translate the paper when I get a chance to see what their explanation is for the effect.
 
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