Rate of change when filling container

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the rate of change of volume when filling a container shaped like a cone. Participants explore the relationship between volume and height, using mathematical reasoning and geometric principles. The conversation includes attempts to derive formulas and clarify concepts related to the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the answer is 4, while others seek clarification and assistance in solving the problem.
  • One participant suggests utilizing similar triangles to simplify the problem into a one-variable equation.
  • Another participant proposes setting up a formula for the volume as a function of height, specifically asking for the volume when the container is filled to 1/8 and the corresponding height.
  • Several participants discuss the volume of a right circular cone and the relationship between height and radius, with one participant noting the volume formula for a cone.
  • One participant mentions having calculated the volume as $\pi/12$ and the height as 1/4, but expresses uncertainty about how to proceed with these values.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the volume formula applies to a cone filled to a certain height, noting that the volume distribution differs in a cone compared to a cylinder.
  • There are discussions about substituting values into the volume formula and deriving relationships between height and radius, with one participant concluding that the radius is half the height when the cone is filled.
  • One participant successfully derives the volume formula as $\frac{{h}^{3}\pi}{12}$ and expresses gratitude for the assistance received.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the final answer, as some assert the answer is 4 while others are still working through the problem. Multiple competing views and approaches remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of formulas and the relationships between variables. Some calculations and assumptions are not fully resolved, particularly concerning the volume distribution in a cone versus a cylinder.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in calculus, geometry, and related mathematical problems involving rates of change and volume calculations may find this discussion beneficial.

Milly
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
The ans is 4. Could someone please help..thanks in advance. :)
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    29.9 KB · Views: 103
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Have you tried anything at all?

Similar triangles will need to be utilised to turn the problem into a one-variable problem.
 
Milly said:
The ans is 4. Could someone please help..thanks in advance. :)

Hi Milly! :)

Can you set up a formula for $V(h)$?

What is the volume when the container is filled for 1/8?
And what is the corresponding height?
 
I have tried the volume i got is $\pi$/12 and the height i got is 1/4 but i have no idea where to fit them in.
 
As suggested, you need to get the volume as a function of height...what is the formula for the volume of a right circular cone? And then how are the height and radius related?
 
I have found dr/dh and dv/dr and substituted h=1/4 in and use them to find dh/dv. Then i multiplied dv/dh with dv/dt but i still cannot get the ans. :(
 
Milly said:
I have tried the volume i got is $\pi$/12 and the height i got is 1/4 but i have no idea where to fit them in.

Suppose the cone is filled up to some height $h$.
What is then the radius of the cone as far as it is filled?

Can you substitute that radius in the formula $V=\frac 1 3 \pi r^2 h$?
That will give you the volume $V(h)$ as a function of $h$.

Milly said:
I have found dr/dh and dv/dr and substituted h=1/4 in and use them to find dh/dv. Then i multiplied dv/dh with dv/dt but i still cannot get the ans. :(

Which formulas did you find for each of those? (Wondering)
 
I substituted h=2 and r=1 into V= $\frac{1}{3}$$\pi$${r}^{2}$h and get the original volume which is $\frac{2\pi}{3}$ and using the ans i found to find the height when the volume is one-eighth which i got is 1/4.
 
Milly said:
...and substituted h=1/4 in

This would only work for a container that has a constant cross section (like a cylinder)...a cone oriented as in the diagram has more volume up top than at the bottom...
 
  • #10
Milly said:
I substituted h=2 and r=1 into V= $\frac{1}{3}$$\pi$${r}^{2}$h and get the original volume which is $\frac{2\pi}{3}$ and using the ans i found to find the height when the volume is one-eighth which i got is 1/4.

What is the radius when the container is filled up to height $h$?
Hint: it is not $r=1$.
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
What is the radius when the container is filled up to height $h$?
Hint: it is not $r=1$.

$\frac{1}{4{r}^{2}}$ ? :/
 
  • #12
Milly said:
$\frac{1}{4{r}^{2}}$ ? :/

When the container is full, the height is 2 and the radius is 1, which is half of the height.
If it is filled up to some height $h$, the radius will be half of the height.
So:
$$r = \frac 1 2 h$$

What do you get if you substitute that in the volume formula for a cone? (Wondering)
 
  • #13
I like Serena said:
When the container is full, the height is 2 and the radius is 1, which is half of the height.
If it is filled up to some height $h$, the radius will be half of the height.
So:
$$r = \frac 1 2 h$$

What do you get if you substitute that in the volume formula for a cone? (Wondering)

$\frac{{h}^{3}\pi}{12}$...
 
  • #14
Milly said:
$\frac{{h}^{3}\pi}{12}$...

Good!

Can you find $\d V h$ now?

And how might you get to $\d h t$, which is what the problem asks for?
 
  • #15
Ohhh i got it$\frac{{h}^{3}}{12}$$\pi$ Is equal to 1/12 $\pi$ So h is 1.
Thank you so muchh!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K