Reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine (or what to be prepared for)

[kyphysics]

I got my Moderna booster this morning.

No noticeable side effects. Shot site is just very slightly tender (I was much more sore after first two shots).

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

 

[kyphysics]

Possibly spoke too soon: very early this morning...felt my chest was heavy (had to sit up from lying on couch), developed a cough, and feel weak with chills throughout my body (and a nauseous feel).

Eating chihcken noodle soup now...hopefully will go away soon.

 

[pinball1970]

Possibly spoke too soon: very early this morning...felt my chest was heavy (had to sit up from lying on couch), developed a cough, and feel weak with chills throughout my body (and a nauseous feel).

Eating chihcken noodle soup now...hopefully will go away soon.

Hope it passes

 

[hutchphd]

Report: got Pfizer booster 24 hrs ago. Previous 2nd Moderna was 8 month previous with moderate usual response of mild fever and a couple of puffy lymph nodes. The switch to Pfizer was purely logistical . So far very mild reaction: had a nap and good night's sleep with only modest arm soreness.

Is it possible that the Pfizer/Moderna combination will broaden the protection envelope? Any contraindications?

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Report: got Pfizer booster 24 hrs ago. Previous 2nd Moderna was 8 month previous with moderate usual response of mild fever and a couple of puffy lymph nodes. The switch to Pfizer was purely logistical . So far very mild reaction: had a nap and good night's sleep with only modest arm soreness.

Is it possible that the Pfizer/Moderna combination will broaden the protection envelope? Any contraindications?

Because they are both based on mRNA technology, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are likely functionally equivalent and there is probably not a lot of difference between the two (the main difference is that the initial two doses of Moderna had more mRNA than Pfizer, but the Moderna dose is halved for the booster, so it's a similar amount as Pfizer).

There is some evidence that a heterologous boost (i.e. boosting J&J with an mRNA vaccine or vice versa) may provide better protection.

 

[pinball1970]

Moderna booster today.
54 years old ok shape, asthma requiring steroids but moderate not severe.

Sore arm and distress at another needle but that's it.
In terms of this year.

March - AZ shot one
June - AZ shot two
Nov 7-17th Covid 19. No lung issues, at home sick for about 4 days recovered quickly by time isolation was completed.( Thanks Science guys!)
Dec 8th Moderna.

Immunologically I really do not think I could be any more equipped against Covid. In a few weeks anyway.

 

[hutchphd]

One of mine made my armpit lymph glands swell (a verified bubo!) so I'm going to tell everyone that the vaccine causes the plague. Maybe (if foxy) I can get on TV :"Dr says vaccine likely causes the plague". Yes I am too a real Doctor...

 

[AlexCaledin]

vaccine likely causes the plague

- the question is, does this unprecedented heavy vaccination overload the immune system so as to make it unable to resist an unexpected attack. The answer is yet to be known.

 

[hutchphd]

There are many unknowns. This is why idle speculation is not called science.

 

[jim mcnamara]

@AlexCaledin
In the time it takes to read to this post:

Your immune system will have reacted to numerous different viral and bacterial epitopes and well as the sialic acid, lectins and so on in food. If you have allergies even more activity roared along in what is really an overreaction. This goes on as long as you live.

The only "overloading" occurs when a pathogen goes undetected or is brand new to the immune system.

Then the pathogen gets dumped en masse or multiplies undetected for a while into the body somehow. "Undetection" is often like stealth mode for pathogens. Think of it as a race that you always want the immune system to win. Unvaccinated Covid patients get a fever on the third or fourth day of the infection. Delta won because it reproduces super fast. 3 days to transmissable. Looks like Omicron maybe faster with the most new virions. The only solution is to give your immune system a head start - it is called vaccination. Your immune system kicks in much sooner, the virus cannot get a foot hold. Why? because you gave it a "heads up" in identifying that bad guys.

Did you know that the Polio vaccines you got as kid are still remembered and kept at the ready 30 years later in special memory cells in the immune system?

So your comment is not correct as stated. If you want to make comments it is always expected that you can back them up with (especially in this case) some basic reference. For example, Twitter is not that kind reference.

Consider:
This is a great book. It is humorous. You do not need extensive background to read it. It has everyday kinds of examples. From Kurzgesacht : Immune: A Journey into the Mysterious System That Keeps You Alive

 

[AlexCaledin]

"Multiple studies have shown that long-term innate immune responses can be either increased (trained immunity) or down-regulated (innate immune tolerance) after certain vaccines or infections.”

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...ccine-reprograms-innate-immune-responses.aspx

"Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines​

...​

Historically, vaccine research has been focused on whether or not vaccination could generate neutralizing antibodies to protect against viral infections, whereas short-term and long-term influences of the various newly developed vaccines to human pathophysiology and other perspectives of the human immune system have not been fully investigated."​

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3

 

[davidsnyder73]

Hello All,

I am happy that you have been vaccinated. I find it very hard to believe that there are medical professionals that will get the vaccine. I guess they do not believe in the their peers or science. In that case how can they work in medicine? Anyway my wife, child, and I have all been vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. My wife and I had very little to no side effects for all three shots. My daughter who is 8 had the first of the series and she had arm soreness at the injection site. that is all that we have experienced through 7 shots so far. I hope everyone has as good an experience. Even if you have a few side effects the vaccine benefits far outweigh the mild symptoms. Good luck everyone!

David

 

[pinball1970]

"Multiple studies have shown that long-term innate immune responses can be either increased (trained immunity) or down-regulated (innate immune tolerance) after certain vaccines or infections.”

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...ccine-reprograms-innate-immune-responses.aspx

"Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines​

...​

Historically, vaccine research has been focused on whether or not vaccination could generate neutralizing antibodies to protect against viral infections, whereas short-term and long-term influences of the various newly developed vaccines to human pathophysiology and other perspectives of the human immune system have not been fully investigated."​

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3

Is there a 'therefore' to this?
The nature article says this has the taken into consideration with vaccine development. Agreed. Just like any other clinical procedure drug, vaccine program, constant scrutiny and improvements.
They could have done the scrutiny and improvements on these prior to the global roll out and had all boxes ticked by 2023 say but a lot more people would have been dead by then.

 

[jim mcnamara]

@AlexCaledin - thanks for the reference, but none support what you said about vaccines causing overloading.

Cytokine storms are a form of overreaction and what causes a lot of pathology in Covid patients. Caused by the Covid virus. Not vaccines.

Any exterior allergen that gets into the human body in small amount can cause anaphylactic shock. That is not overload, it is an extreme overreaction, like the immune system You need to be sensitized to the allergen first, usually.

Overload implies more pathogens or allergens than the body can handle.

Since you clearly want to assert that you are correct, go for it. We just do not need it here. Try Reddit. Thanks.

https://www.newscientist.com/definition/cytokine-storm/

You really should consider reading the book I mentioned.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

"Multiple studies have shown that long-term innate immune responses can be either increased (trained immunity) or down-regulated (innate immune tolerance) after certain vaccines or infections.”

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...ccine-reprograms-innate-immune-responses.aspx

"Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines​

...​

Historically, vaccine research has been focused on whether or not vaccination could generate neutralizing antibodies to protect against viral infections, whereas short-term and long-term influences of the various newly developed vaccines to human pathophysiology and other perspectives of the human immune system have not been fully investigated."​

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3

It should be noted that the research article studies patients vaccinated with an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine produced by China Biotechnology Group Corporation. This vaccine is not in use in the United States, and it is based on a different technology (inactivated virus) than the vaccines currently authorized for use in the US (Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccine is an adenoviral vaccine).

The paper also has some major methodological issues. The study looked at only 11 participants and did not include a control group (all comparisons were made relative to samples taken before vaccination). The paper also strikes me as a paper that makes a ton of measurements to fish for results that are statistically significant (i.e. a green jelly bean experiment):

https://xkcd.com/882/

While they do find some statistically significant differences in the data they collect, it's not clear whether the magnitude of the changes are biologically significant (indeed, because the study lacks a control group, it's not even clear if the changes are larger than the expected amount of naturally occurring variation).

It's not surprising that the scientists could measure some differences before and after vaccination. The bigger question is whether those changes are linked to any significant health outcomes. Despite our long history with inactivated virus vaccines, scientists have not seen a lot of major alterations of the type you are hypothesizing. Similarly, researchers have been on the lookout for adverse events linked to COVID-19 vaccines (even discovering rare blood clotting events that happen ~ one in one million vaccinations), but also have not seen adverse events suggestive of your hypothesis.

 

[jim mcnamara]

@Ygggdrasil

Thanks for the good critique. I thought the paper was non-applicable as well.

I review papers daily. Mostly for inclusion in new member's PF forum posts. The fact that so few show up in the forums with brand new members speaks volumes about quality.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

#Faktenfuchs: "Conference of Pathologists" does not prove any vaccine damage
Serious allegations are spread under the heading "Pathologists Conference": The Covid vaccination has serious consequences and could lead to death. But the claims of two pathologists are questionable in terms of method and content and cannot be proven.

Conclusion
The claims made in the "Pathologists Conference" about side effects and death consequences of Covid vaccinations are not tenable, say experts. The lecture by the two pathologists did not meet scientific standards. In particular, the scientific methodology is incomprehensible - at the "pathologist conference" no connection between the Covid vaccination and the deaths could be proven. This will even be admitted at the conference.

The number of autopsied cases is also far too small to assume that there is a high number of unreported cases of vaccination-related deaths throughout Germany. The findings from the autopsies, for example on alleged cardiac muscle inflammation and lung damage, cannot be verified by experts or specialist societies. There is also no evidence to support the claim that foreign bodies are found in vaccines.

Source:
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/pathologenkonferenz-beweist-keine-corona-impfschaeden-faktenfuchs,SkV5Nmu

via Google translate:
https://translate.google.com/?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&text=#Faktenfuchs: "Pathologenkonferenz" beweist keine Impfschäden Unter dem Stichwort "Pathologenkonferenz" werden schwerwiegende Vorwürfe verbreitet: Die Covid-Impfung habe schwere Folgen und könne zum Tod führen. Doch die Behauptungen zweier Pathologen sind methodisch und inhaltlich fragwürdig und nicht belegbar. ... Fazit Die in der "Pathologenkonferenz" aufgestellten Behauptungen zu Nebenwirkungen und Todesfolgen von Covid-Impfungen sind nicht haltbar, sagen Experten. Der Vortrag der beiden Pathologen entspreche nicht wissenschaftlichen Standards. Insbesondere die wissenschaftliche Methodik sei nicht nachvollziehbar - auf der "Pathologenkonferenz" könne keine Verbindung zwischen der Covid-Impfung und den Todesfällen nachgewiesen werden. Auf der Konferenz wird dies sogar eingeräumt. Die Anzahl an obduzierten Fällen ist außerdem viel zu klein, um eine hohe Dunkelziffer von Impf-Todesfolgen in ganz Deutschland anzunehmen. Die Befunde aus den Obduktionen, zum Beispiel zu angeblichen Herzmuskelentzündungen und Lungen-Schäden, sind für Experten und Fachgesellschaften nicht belegbar. Für die Behauptung, dass Fremdkörper in Impfstoffen zu finden seien, fehlen ebenfalls die Belege.&op=translate

​

 

[Laroxe]

Is there a 'therefore' to this?
The nature article says this has the taken into consideration with vaccine development. Agreed. Just like any other clinical procedure drug, vaccine program, constant scrutiny and improvements.
They could have done the scrutiny and improvements on these prior to the global roll out and had all boxes ticked by 2023 say but a lot more people would have been dead by then.

Yes, the "therefore" bit is important. I'm pleased that they suggest that there are pathophysiological alterations, though they may be pushing it with the claim of "consistent", that's why we give vaccines, to alter the patho- physiological response.
The history is interesting, there we were giving vaccines which worked, but we really didn't have much of a clue as to how, in many cases the generation of neutralising antibodies, may have been pretty irrelevant really, its reassuring that we have learned so much in recent years. We are at least in a position to evaluate the short and long term effects and even predict outcomes with some accuracy as we introduce newer and safer technologies to vaccine design.
There are some diseases that as part of their pathology have developed elaborate ways in which to evade or even directly attack our immune system, measles is one and indeed Covid 19 can do so, thankfully these effects are very unusual in response to vaccination, if indeed they occur at all. There are other responses to antigens that can cause problems but the immune system is a complex system that is always active. Its level of activity varies depending on the threats, and it is potentially highly aggressive system that can cause a significant amount of "friendly fire" in its efforts to keep us alive. Vaccines present a far lower level of threat and are far less likely to cause the problems associated with the actual disease. Really its amazing that it doesn't go wrong much more than it does and when it does, vaccines are not very significant at all.
Advances in our understanding and in the technologies used are allowing us to develop vaccines against diseases we have had no protection against and in fact as treatments of diseases. The idea that going back to the old, obsolete methods would offer any advantages over what we currently have, is very strange.

​

 

[fresh_42]

Note (as a mentor):

Please do not post every nonsense that is around on the internet. We still have the rule to back claims by scientific studies and papers.

Note (as a member):

I just thought today, that we might have faced the beginning of a new vaccination technique that might become the new normal, and our kids will be amused in 20 years by all the false rumors that were around today.

 

[atyy]

Moderna booster today.
54 years old ok shape, asthma requiring steroids but moderate not severe.

Sore arm and distress at another needle but that's it.
In terms of this year.

March - AZ shot one
June - AZ shot two
Nov 7-17th Covid 19. No lung issues, at home sick for about 4 days recovered quickly by time isolation was completed.( Thanks Science guys!)
Dec 8th Moderna.

Immunologically I really do not think I could be any more equipped against Covid. In a few weeks anyway.

OK, you are super-super-immune!
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.08.21267491v1
2xRNA followed by non-Omicron infection = superimmune (good neutralization against Omicron)
2xAZ followed by non-Omicron infection = superimmune (good neutralization against Omicron)
Non-Omicron Infection followed by 1xRNA = superimmune (good neutralization against Omicron)
[Caveat: N=1 for the AZ case]

3 doses of RNA vax may at least mimic some aspects of super-immunity, but we need more data to understand the magnitude, variability and duration of the Omicron neutralization that triple vax provides. So far there's the Pfizer pseudovirus data, showing excellent neutralization by 3xRNA; Ciesek lab live virus data showing variable neutralization; and news reports of an Israel Sheba Medical Center live virus study, apparently showing excellent neutralization. UKHSA reports that 6 months after double vax, vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic illness is about 0-40%, but jumps up to 70-80% one month after triple vax.

And of course, there are T cells (quite resistant to viral mutations), so even double vax should provide at least reasonable protection against severe disease caused by Omicron, even if neutralization has fallen to quite low levels.

 

[Astronuc]

Just received my third Pfizer vaccine shot (booster). I didn't realize I had a choice of Moderna. My son received his third vaccintion with Moderna. We both received influenza vaccine.

So far, other than some soreness in the arm, nothing unusual. We'll see how my son does later tonight and tomorrow.

My daughter received her Moderna booster yesterday. She mentioned 7 hours after getting the shot, she felt sore. When she awoke this morning, she felt more pain all over, had a slight fever and fled nauseous. She did not have this reaction the first two vaccinations. She went back to sleep this morning for an additional 7 hours. She took NSAID, Naproxen, which is more effective than Acetaminophen.

 

[Astronuc]

After 18, 24 and 27 hours, my arm has slight soreness near the Pfizer vaccine site and only a little soreness to the touch on my flu vaccine site. Otherwise, I feel normal and have been productive all day.

My son was feeling tired this morning, but went to work. He left work early since he was feeling tired. He said he didn't feel feverish, but has been taking Acetaminophen in the morning and Naproxen during the afternoon. He did feel some chills or shivers.

My wife informed me that a couple who owns the hair styling place she visits both got Covid (the husband recovered, but the wife is hospitalized). One employee got Covid, as well, and unfortunately is deceased within the past week or so. The deceased person had a comorbidity. I don't know if the variant was determined, but Delta is still prevalent, and we do not yet know the statistics for Omicron. Locally, we've been average one death per day for the last two weeks There was a three day period without a death, then one day in which 3 deaths were recorded, and it seems we're back to 1 fatality/day. During the summer, we probably had 1 death per month. Positive cases and mortality rates began increasing through September, but began to decrease in October. The active positive cases of Covid-19 decreased to less than 400, but not have increased by more than 4x to more than 1700. The rate of positive cases has increased by about a factor of 2 by the end of November, coincident with Thanksgiving holiday, and fewer restrictions on mask wearing (some reinstated) and a slow down in vaccinations, and the introduction of Omicron.

 

[Astronuc]

After 18, 24 and 27 hours, my arm has slight soreness near the Pfizer vaccine site and only a little soreness to the touch on my flu vaccine site. Otherwise, I feel normal and have been productive all day.

My son was feeling tired this morning, but went to work. He left work early since he was feeling tired. He said he didn't feel feverish, but has been taking Acetaminophen in the morning and Naproxen during the afternoon. He did feel some chills or shivers.

Update: The soreness in my arm had more or less dissipated after 48 yours, and I'm back to normal today. No other aches or fever.

My son felt better the following day, or about 36 hours after his vaccination. He definitely had a stronger reaction to Moderna than I had to Pfizer, which seems to be typical of folks I know where some got Pfizer and others Moderna, even in the same family.

 

[fresh_42]

I got vaccinated with Pfizer/BionTech and boosted with Moderna.

My arms felt like having a hematome on both drugs, which lasted a day or two. The only difference I recognized was, that the Moderna shot made me very tired, and I slept for 13 hours after it.

I wonder if I could get a prescription for off-label use.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I received my second dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine back in the end of June (received my first dose back at the end of April). I had no reaction whatsoever to my first dose (apart from a slight soreness in my arm, which lasted only for a day).

After my 2nd dose, I developed a mild headache a few hours after vaccination, which cleared up again after about an hour, and had a slightly sore arm (similar to when I get the flu vaccine and when I work out my arms intensely at the gym), which lasted for 2 days. No other reactions.

My parents received their 2nd dose around the same time I did, and they had no reaction. My sister received her 2nd dose shortly after I did, and she had similar reactions to mine.

An update from the my previous post. I received my 3rd (booster) dose on December 20. For my 3rd dose, I had no reaction whatsoever (again apart from a slight soreness in my arm which only lasted a day).

 

[Astronuc]

After 18, 24 and 27 hours, my arm has slight soreness near the Pfizer vaccine site and only a little soreness to the touch on my flu vaccine site. Otherwise, I feel normal and have been productive all day.

I just got my updated (Pfizer bivalent) vaccine (for Omicron) and flu shot at the same time. So far, no pain, and feeling normal. My wife (she got her third booster) and son did the same.

 

[hutchphd]

(Pfizer bivalent)

Going for my bivalent Pfizer jab (2nd boost) tomorrow. Trust I will have a similarly benign response. I will report any untoward reaction

 

[bhobba]

Going for my bivalent Pfizer jab (2nd boost) tomorrow. Trust I will have a similarly benign response. I will report any untoward reaction

Here in Aus, because we are entering the summer months, it has been decided to initially limit it to people who have not got the 4th booster yet. While not decided yet, it is thought that everyone will get it about March/April next year when we are due for our flu shot. The combined Covid/Flu vaccine may be available then.

For the full picture of what is happening in Australia:
https://www.health.gov.au/health-alerts/covid-19/case-numbers-and-statistics

Interestingly, Australia's seven-day average death rate is now just four and declining. Combine this with the fact that only 4% of those that die have had the 4th dose, and it is easily seen that your risk of death, while now low, is very low if you have had the 4th dose. Again - please, please get the 4th dose. As only 30% of people in Aus (about 40% of those eligible ie over 30) have had the 4th dose, the protection would be about 86% less likely to die. Remember, this is Australia - I have read in other countries, it can be a bit different - eg in Isreal, it is 78%. I believe everyone should get the fourth dose, just a personal opinion. The consensus in Aus is if you are under 30, your chance of dying is very small anyway. I believe it has been established, at least on the Gold Coast near where I live, that 90% of people with Covid do not even know it and carry on with life as usual. Anything we can do to reduce the length of time you are infectious will help. It is not just the death rate that is a concern - so is long Covid.

Thanks
Bill

 

[jtbell]

I just got my updated (Pfizer bivalent) vaccine (for Omicron) and flu shot at the same time. So far, no pain, and feeling normal. My wife (she got her third booster) and son did the same.

My wife and I got the Moderna bivalent booster a couple of weeks ago. Third booster (fifth COVID shot in total) for us. No issues except a little soreness at the injection site the next day.

 

[Astronuc]

I just got my updated (Pfizer bivalent) vaccine (for Omicron) and flu shot at the same time. So far, no pain, and feeling normal. My wife (she got her third booster) and son did the same.

After 16 hours, still feeling normal. No adverse reaction.

I received Pfizer since the local pharmacy had only Pfizer. I would have liked to get Moderna as a test to see if I had the kind of strong reactions others experienced in the past. All four of my vaccinations have been Pfizer, since that was what was available where I made my appointments. My son received Pfizer this time, but his three previous vaccines were Moderna. He did experience some effects from the vaccine, such as feeling fatigue and discomfort with all three Moderna vaccines.Edit/update: Can You Get the New COVID-19 Booster at the Same Time as a Flu Shot?
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/can-you-get-covid-19-booster-at-same-time-as-flu-shot/