COVID Reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine (or what to be prepared for)

[pinball1970]

Bivalent vaccine? Pfizer or Moderna?

Spikevax Bivalent Original / Omicron.

 

[Astronuc]

Spikevax Bivalent Original / Omicron.

I found this "Spikevax (previously COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna)"
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/spikevax

elasomeran/imelasomeran and elasomeran

Spikevax contains elasomeran, a molecule called messenger RNA (mRNA) with instructions for producing a protein from the original strain of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Spikevax is also available as an adapted vaccine called Spikevax bivalent Original/Omicron BA.1 which contains elasomeran and an additional mRNA molecule, imelasomeran, with instructions for producing a protein from the Omicron BA.1 subvariant of SARS-CoV-2.

So Spikevax(R) is Modern's bivalent vaccine.
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/spikevax
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...sease-2019-covid-19/moderna-covid-19-vaccines

This is a multidose vial that contains 10 doses of 0.5 mL each or a maximum of 20 doses of 0.25mL each.

One dose (0.5 mL) contains 100 micrograms of elasomeran, a COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (embedded in SM-102 lipid nanoparticles).

One dose (0.25 mL) contains 50 micrograms of of elasomeran, a COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (embedded in SM-102 lipid nanoparticles).

Elasomeran is a single-stranded, 5’-capped messenger RNA (mRNA) produced using a cell-free in vitro transcription from the corresponding DNA templates, encoding the viral spike (S) protein of SARS-CoV-2.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...are-professionals-on-covid-19-vaccine-moderna

No wonder the strong reaction.

 

[PeroK]

Spikevax Bivalent Original / Omicron.

I got mine an hour ago.

 

[pinball1970]

I got mine an hour ago.

Same one? Have paracetamol and water at hand. I had jab at 1 pm went to bed early and symptoms probably peaked @3am.
Urine is still dark even though I have been drinking water all day. Must have dehydrated a lot in the night.

 

[PeroK]

Same one?

Yes.

 

[Janus]

I have mine scheduled for later today. Pfizer. Don't expect much of a reaction. Never had one with previous doses, and my wife has already gotten hers with little reaction. Going by experience, she always has a stronger reaction to vaccines than I do ( When she got her 2nd shingles shot, it laid her out the next day. When I got mine, my worst reaction was a reddening of skin in a patch around the injection shot.)

 

[PeroK]

I have mine scheduled for later today.

I've learned something today. Even a Roman god needs a COVID vaccination!

 

[Laroxe]

Here in Aus, because we are entering the summer months, it has been decided to initially limit it to people who have not got the 4th booster yet. While not decided yet, it is thought that everyone will get it about March/April next year when we are due for our flu shot. The combined Covid/Flu vaccine may be available then.

For the full picture of what is happening in Australia:
https://www.health.gov.au/health-alerts/covid-19/case-numbers-and-statistics

Interestingly, Australia's seven-day average death rate is now just four and declining. Combine this with the fact that only 4% of those that die have had the 4th dose, and it is easily seen that your risk of death, while now low, is very low if you have had the 4th dose. Again - please, please get the 4th dose. As only 30% of people in Aus (about 40% of those eligible ie over 30) have had the 4th dose, the protection would be about 86% less likely to die. Remember, this is Australia - I have read in other countries, it can be a bit different - eg in Isreal, it is 78%. I believe everyone should get the fourth dose, just a personal opinion. The consensus in Aus is if you are under 30, your chance of dying is very small anyway. I believe it has been established, at least on the Gold Coast near where I live, that 90% of people with Covid do not even know it and carry on with life as usual. Anything we can do to reduce the length of time you are infectious will help. It is not just the death rate that is a concern - so is long Covid.

Thanks
Bill

It seems strange to be offering the 4th Booster now when the current Covid 19 wave is ending, March / April seems far more sensible. The maximum level of protection still appears to be quite short lived, certainly antibody levels start to fall, around 15 weeks following the injection, surprisingly they appear to fall more slowly in the elderly.
Its worth remembering that we are only starting to see publication of research on the effectiveness of the 3rd dose and there is still debate on the balance of risks with a 4th dose in young healthy individuals. We still lack any real data on the effectiveness of the bivalent vaccines, support is largely theory based. For some reason most of the research still focusses on antibody responses despite knowing that the Omicron variants are antibody avoidant. While a lot of the information these studies give us is pretty useless, it is easy to collect and it gets published. :). The current recommendation in the UK is for Older and at risk populations to be offered a 4th dose and there appears to be rather less effort put into convincing people to have it. Its being offered now as we are just starting to see some increases in infections which may indicate the start of a new wave. Of course I fall into the Older at risk group, which is tragic in a different way, so will be getting the booster. :)
These links are interesting and you can sign up for a free account, if you need to.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01971-7/fulltext
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00141-4/fulltext

 

[bhobba]

It seems strange to be offering the 4th Booster now when the current Covid 19 wave is ending, March / April seems far more sensible.

They have the doses so I guess the thinking is just to leave the current rules in place until March/April. And yes I have read the fourth dose benefits may be short-lived.

Thanks
Bill

 

[pinball1970]

It seems strange to be offering the 4th Booster now when the current Covid 19 wave is ending, March / April seems far more sensible. The maximum level of protection still appears to be quite short lived, certainly antibody levels start to fall, around 15 weeks following the injection, surprisingly they appear to fall more slowly in the elderly.
Its worth remembering that we are only starting to see publication of research on the effectiveness of the 3rd dose and there is still debate on the balance of risks with a 4th dose in young healthy individuals.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01971-7/fulltext
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00141-4/fulltext

Are we (UK) not now officially in Flu season or was that more for Oz/Bill?

I checked on line for vaccine availability and some of the questions were wishy washy completing the application.
"Do you think you could be high risk?" For instance. Technically no, I am not really overweight, 55 but with asthma requiring steroids, so I put yes.
The other options were, I am high risk, I am not high risk.

My motivation was that I got Covid around this time last year. Whatever happened with the weather / people's habits at that time last year will be here this time. Probably worse as people have Covid fatigue/covid amnesia or just think it is done.

I will get my flu jab next week hopefully. I will read your links. Thanks

 

[pinball1970]

I got mine an hour ago.

Any symptoms?

 

[PeroK]

Any symptoms?

Not really. Sore arm and a bit tired, perhaps.

 

[pinball1970]

Not really. Sore arm and a bit tired, perhaps.

That's good. I still feel groggy but I will go for a walk later. This amount of time in bed can put one out of sorts.

 

[Janus]

I've learned something today. Even a Roman god needs a COVID vaccination!

Well, because some of us can't seem to keep from commingling with mortals, one does have to take precautions.

 

[hutchphd]

That comingling stuff seldom ends well as I recall, vaccine or not.

 

[Pythagorean]

Oh man, this thread reminds me of when my friend got a bloodclot in his leg after getting the vaccine. He has auto-immune issues so it was assumed to be a product of that and the vaccine. I had just received my second shot. I don't have auto immune disorders but having it happen to someone close to me made me worry about it for a couple days, despite knowing logically that it was with vanishing probability it would happen to me.

 

[bhobba]

I don't have auto immune disorders but having it happen to someone close to me made me worry about it for a couple days, despite knowing logically that it was with vanishing probability it would happen to me.

This pandemic has generally reinforced my view that people have difficulty dealing objectively with risk. Here in Aus, people were going wild about the 1 in a million chance of dying from blood clots from the AZ vaccine. Yet, just getting out of bed once in the morning to get on with your life carries a 2.5 in a million risk of dying. It has now been reported, if I remember correctly, there is an 80% increase in heart issues with mRNA vaccines and the young. This has, understandably, concerned many. But again, when balancing risk vs reward, things are somewhat different:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...covid-far-outweigh-the-risks-of-myocarditis1/

I think it is simply part of human nature, and I am not sure what to do about it. Just off the top of my head, critical and statistical thinking as part of the school curriculum? Just an idea for discussion.

Thanks
Bill

 

[symbolipoint]

It has now been reported, if I remember correctly, there is an 80% increase in heart issues with mRNA vaccines and the young. This has, understandably, concerned many. But again, when balancing risk vs reward, things are somewhat different:

WHAT Heart Issues? Too muddy the terminology so not know what that means.

Anyone who's become sick with influenza after one or two seasons not being vaccinated will learn that being vaccinated and reducing the risk of illness is far better than being infected with the disease. For my point of view, treat COVID19 the same way: Take vaccination and avoid a possibly worse illness than influenza.

 

[bhobba]

WHAT Heart Issues? Too muddy the terminology so not know what that means.

To be specific, myocarditis or pericarditis predominantly in the young:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00842-X/fulltext

As you correctly point out, the risk vs reward is firmly in favour of getting vaccinated. That's the whole issue - yes, there is danger - but it must be balanced with reward.

Regarding the flu vaccine, the most famous incident was in 1976:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/

While quite unpleasant and can hang around for several years, Guillain-Barre syndrome nearly always resolves itself. In the USA only 450 got it, and of those, nearly all would have recovered. Even in that famous vaccine case, the odds were well in favour of vaccination - in the USA, 12,000 – 52,000 die of the flu each year. Flu vaccination, if you do get it (it reduces your chance of being infected) reduces your chance of dying by 50%.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Janus]

BTW. As expected, I had no reaction. Soreness at the site for the rest of the day, but I think that was more due to inexperience on the the part of the person giving me the shot. I definitely felt it going in, and I usually barely notice.
He also told me that I had to wait 15 min after the shot(which they hadn't had my wife do.) While I was waiting, I heard him tell someone else that, and a supervisor stepped into correct him that this was only for people getting their first shot, not boosters. This led me to the conclusion that he was new to this.

That being said, I will give him props for recognizing the SISU on my cap for what it was.

 

[DrJohn]

Slightly sore arm at injection point, and the world's tiniest headache from the first jab - I told the nurse not to list the headache and mentioned the nocebo effect. She smiled at that (knowledgable lady) and didn't enter it as a reported side effect. Headache lasted less than an hour (I had to keep checking to detect it, it was that weak), slightly sore arm lasted about two days. Tomorrow I get my fourth jab. I normally get a slightly sore arm from flu injections too. Tommorrow, I might report anything different about how I feel.Now I personally object to huge lists of side effects that include those one person in 100,000 or even 1,000,000 will get. (You see these listed on every medication in the UK. Because if you tell someone about a side effect, no matter how trivial, they will watch for that effect - that's how I noticed my tiniest of tiny headaches, that lasted for less than an hour at the most. If you tell someone a side effect is a sore elbow on the arm not injected and someone bumps that elbow on the bedroom door and wakes up the next day with a sore elbow, they will report it as a side effect.

I remember the scares about how x people have died within seven days of having the jab (this was reported by government and in facebook posts, and we all know how reliable facebook is)! So I looked up the death rates as reported over several previous years, to get the weekly numbers you'd expect to die in any week at that various times of year. Guess what - less people died among the reported number jabbed in these weeks than normally died among that sample size in an average week / year. I checked multiple weeks, same result. I checked for outlier years, but even taking the worst year, it was still true! So Covid-19 vaccines obviously must be preventing normal death. Lengthening your life, even if Covid didn't exist! Now that was personal research into 35,000,000 "participants", a large sample in anyone's view. So I must be correct. Think I should publish this?

There have been many investigations into the nocebo effect, where people are given a drink or jab that is actually pure water, then told the side effects to watch for. Many report the side effects they have just been told about, even if it is just invented for the experiment. The BBC did a program about three years ago, I think, where they told a group of about 30 - 35 people they would be drinking water with a higher dose of Vitamin C than in normal drinks, and side effect symptoms to watch out for from vitamin C. Totally made up symptoms, or we'd all get them from eating apples and oranges. About half reported some symptoms. But some reported having several of the worst symptoms (four or five people, if I remember correctly) and had to withrawn from the experiment by about day three as they were feeling so very ill! From drinking water.
(A bit like a woman in a shop last week who, when chatting to the till operator said she couldn't drink water without feeling sick, but she could drink beer and lemonade and milk - even though I gave her strong hints about how much water was in milk, beer, etc, she was adamant water that made her sick.)

It's the same with suger or e-numbers making children hyperactive. One investigation took groups of parents and their child. The parents watched through a one-way mirror and accessed if their child, after drinking what turned out to be just water, became hyperactive. Those who were told it was laced with lots of sugar or e-numbers often reported hyperactivity. While those told their child was drinking water reported no hyperactivity in their child, but said "just look at the other lot's kids, bouncing off the walls"!

 

[pinball1970]

Influenza and Covid vaccine today.
First time, I did not think to ask this time as I am not great with injections but I was given no literature.
2022 was bivalent Covid and Quadrivalent Influenza A.

 

[pinball1970]

Must add that nurses are great. While I was explaining that am not good with needles she just shushed me up, ordered me to sit and relax. Said she would not hurt me and she would count to three, she lied, she got to two.
She also shouted at me for tensing! DROP your shoulder!! Perhaps it's just Manc nurses?
She smiled the whole time.
Ultimate respect, they see the absolute worst that can happen to a person, modest salary, then go home and ask their partners how their day has been.

 

[hmmm27]

I'd had a standard under-the-weather bug from the temperature bouncing up and down so much, lately. My standard response is to bundle up in socks/sweats/scarf for a couple of days while consuming vast quantities of NeoCitran and chicken soup, and binging whatever on the tube.

I thought I was over it and took a flu shot in one arm and the latest Covid in the other.

Knocked me right out for the weekend.

 

[berkeman]

Knocked me right out for the weekend.

They vaxxed you even though you were under the weather? Or did you check the wrong box on the survey form while in line for the vax?

 

[Janus]

Going in for the flu shot today, but will need to postpone the booster, as I finally got Covid about 3 weeks ago.

 

[hutchphd]

Beware the long Covid. Friends who are still affected. I have avoided infection (so far).

 

[Astronuc]

I had posted about getting vaccines for Covid (SARS-Cov-2), RSV and Influenza.

Only a bit of soreness at the injection site of one (don't remember which one, but it might have been RSV adjacent to Covid in my left deltoid). I lifted weights before and after. I didn't feel any effects, e.g., fatigue or other noteworthy reaction.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...9-version-ba-2-ba-4-ba-5.1012505/post-6938939

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...9-version-ba-2-ba-4-ba-5.1012505/post-6939180

Lots of folks around us have developed Covid following group gatherings, some for a second time. It's still going around, and some folks, usually older are being hospitalized.

 

[hutchphd]

I'm really on the fence. I had a Gillain-Barre variant six years ago (perhaps flu-vaccine related) so I am a little bit vaccine averse. Also I do believe that the degree to which the mRNA vaccinations were ineffective in control of transmission itself was willfully underemphasized in the original publicity from CDC and pharma. That being said, the mRNA vaccine saved many many lives and was a triumph. I think I will likely not reboost......already I have eschewed influenza vaccine since (because of) my bad autoimmune response (life is better with myelin!!).

 

[pinball1970]

I had posted about getting vaccines for Covid (SARS-Cov-2), RSV and Influenza.

Only a bit of soreness at the injection site of one (don't remember which one, but it might have been RSV adjacent to Covid in my left deltoid). I lifted weights before and after. I didn't feel any effects, e.g., fatigue or other noteworthy reaction.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...9-version-ba-2-ba-4-ba-5.1012505/post-6938939

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...9-version-ba-2-ba-4-ba-5.1012505/post-6939180

Lots of folks around us have developed Covid following group gatherings, some for a second time. It's still going around, and some folks, usually older are being hospitalized.

I'm still in bed from 9pm Wed. I think I was the same last year.

 

[Klystron]

To add another anecdote: I received the latest influenza and RSV vaccines back in October, one in each arm. I noticed no reaction from the RSV site and minor discomfort from flu. I felt a little "under the weather" the next day but exercised (swam) as usual.

Received Moderna booster for Covid-19 Monday. Noticed minor swelling at injection site and a sore arm for about two days reminiscent of throwing, punches or baseballs, too much. Oddly, the opposite arm muscle also twinges making me think I strained my arms a bit while exercising rather than only a reaction to the booster.

 

[Laroxe]

I'm really on the fence. I had a Gillain-Barre variant six years ago (perhaps flu-vaccine related) so I am a little bit vaccine averse. Also I do believe that the degree to which the mRNA vaccinations were ineffective in control of transmission itself was willfully underemphasized in the original publicity from CDC and pharma. That being said, the mRNA vaccine saved many many lives and was a triumph. I think I will likely not reboost......already I have eschewed influenza vaccine since (because of) my bad autoimmune response (life is better with myelin!!).

I think they were predicting the effect on transmission based on the experience with other vaccines, the lack of effect on transmission came as an unpleasant surprise. Now of course most countries have decided the high levels of immunity in the population with the protection from severe disease has altered the balance of risks significantly. So most are now only recommending that if people have had the full course of vaccinations and the booster, against Covid, then they don't need another booster, unless they fall into a group considered to be at increased risk. It may be that the generally lower rate of vaccine uptake in the USA has been a factor in the recommendations there.

 

[Tom.G]

After having skipped the Summer version, I got the Fall version of the Moderna co-valent vaccine.

About 4pm on October 31 I received the the Moderna vaccine, lets call this Hour 0. I've had the Moderna vaccines in the past without serious side effects.

Hour 4: Very sleepy, go to bed

Hour ??: Sometime during the night I awaken shivering rather energetically. It shortly subsides and I get up for a bathroom run. That is when I find my legs won't straighten all the way. I make it to the bathroom with my legs half bent. When I try to stand up straight I lose muscle control and my knees go back to half folded.

Hour 12?: Dozing and nauseaus. Ask wife to bring a barf-bag (plastic shopping bag inside a paper shopping bag). She brings casserole dish. Several words later she brings a barf-bag. Fortunately it wasn't needed after all.

Hour 16: Get up after 12hrs. of sleep feeling low on energy and a bit foggy-brained.

Hour 20:I decide to read the vaccine Information Sheet I was given after the injection. On the bottom of the back page, in Section 5 What if there is a serious problem, it states "... If you see signs of a serious allergic reaction (hives, swelling of the face and throat, difficulty breathing, fast heartbeat, dizziness, or weakness), <underline added> call 9-1-1 and get the person to the nearest hospital.

Seek medical attention right away if the vaccinated person experiences chest pain, shortness of breath, or feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering , or pounding heart after COVID-19 vaccination. ...

Check Pulse Rate and Blood Pressure. Pulse +30%, BP -20%.

I did not detect any heart involvment at the time.

After 4 days I was mostly back to normal, tiring a bit easily though and some minor brain-fog hanging around.

Here it is 10 days after the vax and I seem to be sleeping a bit more and perhaps some memory-recall problems.

I think I will change brands for the next vax!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Astronuc]

Last week, my wife got the Moderna booster vaccine and influenza vaccine this time - one in each arm. She had no discernible reaction, other than some pain where she received the flu vaccine. Most of the folks I know who got the Moderna vaccines had reactions in which they were tired/fatigued.

I've gotten the Pfizer vaccine and boosters, and so far, no significant reaction, even with RSV and Influenza simultaneously.

 

[morrobay]

I think they were predicting the effect on transmission based on the experience with other vaccines, the lack of effect on transmission came as an unpleasant surprise.

Indeed, my Thai girlfriend commented on this: " Me no have vaccine no covid" And regarding her girlfriend: " She have vaccine but now she have covid "

 

[berkeman]

Indeed, my Thai girlfriend commented on this: " Me no have vaccine no covid" And regarding her girlfriend: " She have vaccine but now she have covid "

Well, it takes all kinds of idiots to make up this world.

 

[Laroxe]

It's an idea you have to be careful about, while the vaccine isn't particularly brilliant at preventing infection, it does seem to be very effective in preventing infection developing into a very serious or life-threatening disease. Using Thailand as an example, Covid has been linked to around 35,000 premature deaths, but the rate of deaths fell rapidly following the introduction of vaccination. Across the whole world, it has been the unvaccinated who have suffered the greatest risk of death, but we are now reaching the point at which few people have not had some exposure to this virus.

We are entering a whole new era in medicine with manipulating our own immune system using vaccines or drugs is becoming a major part of the prevention and treatment of loads of diseases, this is already the case with many cancers, vaccines are also being developed for many killer diseases and even to increase our lifespan directly. Unfortunately, whatever people feel about the Covid 19 vaccines, the fashion associated with vaccine refusal has already led to a resurgence in diseases that were previously well controlled.

 

[pinball1970]

Long covid has been discussed previously.

This study in the BMJ today showing the protection of the vaccine against long covid. https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-076990

CDC view which already states this protection the vaccine gives in the summary.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html

This article from January this year, documented 650 million Covid cases with approximately 10% of those leading to long Covid.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2