Relationship between x and y components of E

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the x and y components of an electric field in the context of classical physics, specifically focusing on the superposition of two linearly polarized electromagnetic waves. Participants are tasked with deriving a relation that does not involve time, based on the electric field expressions provided.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the behavior of the electric fields Ex and Ey as functions of time and attempt to eliminate the time variable from their equations. They discuss using Euler's formula and trigonometric identities to relate the components.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of different mathematical approaches to derive the required relation. Some participants have suggested using trigonometric addition laws and the Pythagorean identity, while others are questioning the steps taken and the validity of certain manipulations. Guidance has been offered regarding substitution and simplification techniques.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. There is an emphasis on deriving results without direct solutions being provided.

jasonchiang97
Messages
72
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement



Before diving into the quantum-mechanical superposition principle, let’s get some practice with superposition in classical physics. Consider an electromagnetic wave propagating in the z-direction, which is a superposition of two linearly polarized waves. The electric field vector in the wave is
E = Ex + Ey, where Ex = a cos(kz − ωt), Ey = b cos(kz − ωt + δ). (1) The parameter δ is a real number between −π/2 and π/2, and indicates by how much the two components are out of phase. Look at the behavior of the electric field at some fixed value of z, say z = 0 for simplicity.

a) [2pt] Describe what the electric fields Ex and Ey are doing as a function of time.

b) [4pt] Show that there is a simple relation between Ex and Ey which does not involve t. Namely, you should find the following: Ex2/a2 + Ey2[/SUP]/ b2 − 2ExEycos δ/ab = constant. (2) Express the constant in the right-hand side of (2) in terms of the phase shift δ.

I am trying to do b[/B]

as I found in a) that

Ex = acos(ωt) and Ey = bcos(ωt - δ)



Homework Equations



E = Ex + Ey

The Attempt at a Solution



Ex = acos(ωt)
Ey = bcos(ωt)

Ex/a = cos(ωt)
Ey/b = cos(ωt - δ)

I assume I can use Euler formula and say e = cosΘ + isinΘ

So I get

Ex/a = ei(ωt)
Ey/b = ei(ωt - δ) = eiωt / eiδ


So

Ey eiδ/b = eiωt

I assume I set them equal to each other but I don't get the terms that I want for the LHS and the RHS becomes 0.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
jasonchiang97 said:

Homework Statement



Before diving into the quantum-mechanical superposition principle, let’s get some practice with superposition in classical physics. Consider an electromagnetic wave propagating in the z-direction, which is a superposition of two linearly polarized waves. The electric field vector in the wave is
E = Ex + Ey, where Ex = a cos(kz − ωt), Ey = b cos(kz − ωt + δ). (1) The parameter δ is a real number between −π/2 and π/2, and indicates by how much the two components are out of phase. Look at the behavior of the electric field at some fixed value of z, say z = 0 for simplicity.

a) [2pt] Describe what the electric fields Ex and Ey are doing as a function of time.

b) [4pt] Show that there is a simple relation between Ex and Ey which does not involve t. Namely, you should find the following: Ex2/a2 + Ey2[/SUP]/ b2 − 2ExEycos δ/ab = constant. (2) Express the constant in the right-hand side of (2) in terms of the phase shift δ.

I am trying to do b[/B]

as I found in a) that

Ex = acos(ωt) and Ey = bcos(ωt - δ)



Homework Equations



E = Ex + Ey

The Attempt at a Solution



Ex = acos(ωt)
Ey = bcos(ωt)

Ex/a = cos(ωt)
Ey/b = cos(ωt - δ)

I assume I can use Euler formula and say e = cosΘ + isinΘ

So I get

Ex/a = ei(ωt)
Ey/b = ei(ωt - δ) = eiωt / eiδ


So

Ey eiδ/b = eiωt

I assume I set them equal to each other but I don't get the terms that I want for the LHS and the RHS becomes 0.

You have to eliminate the time t. Use the addition law for cosine and write both cos(ωt) and sin(ωt) in terms of Ex, Ey and δ. Then use sin2(ωt)+cos2(ωt)=1.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
ehild said:
You have to eliminate the time t. Use the addition law for cosine and write both cos(ωt) and sin(ωt) in terms of Ex, Ey and δ. Then use sin2(ωt)+cos2(ωt)=1.
I cannot rewrite the sinδ terms in terms of Ex and Ey and δ unless I am supposed to use

cosx = sin(x+π/2)
 
ehild said:
don't use bold fonts.

First:do not use bold fonts unless you really want to highlight something. As for Addition Laws of Trigonometry see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TrigonometricAdditionFormulas.html

Yes, sorry about that.

What I get is

cos2(ωt)cos2(δ) + sin2(ωt)sin2(δ) + 2cos(ωt)cos(δ)sin(ωt)sin(δ)

Which I can sub to get

(Ex2/a2)cos2(δ) + sin(ωt)sinδ + (Ex/a)sin(2δ)sin(ωt)

However I am unsure how to simplify further
 
jasonchiang97 said:
Yes, sorry about that.

What I get is

cos2(ωt)cos2(δ) + sin2(ωt)sin2(δ) + 2cos(ω)cos(δ)sin(ωt)sin(δ)

Which I can sub to get

(Ex2/a2)cos2(δ) + sin(ωt)sinδ + (2Ex/a)cos(δ)sin(ωt)sin(δ)

However I am unsure how to simplify further
What do you get if you expand cos(ωt-δ) in Ey/b = cos(ωt-δ)?
 
cos(ωt)cos(δ) + sin(ωt)sin(δ)

I then squared the entire term. Is that step incorrect?
 
jasonchiang97 said:
cos(ωt)cos(δ) + sin(ωt)sin(δ)

I then squared the entire term. Is that step incorrect?
Why did you square the entire term?

You have Ey/b=cos(ωt)cos(δ) + sin(ωt)sin(δ) and Ex/a=cos(ωt). Substitute Ex/a for cos(ωt) in the expression for Ey/b and isolate sin(ωt).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Ah I squared it because I thought I would simplify after.

Okay then I would get

(Ey/b - Excos(δ)/a)/sinδ = sin(ωt)Then I use sin2(ωt) + cos2(ωt) = 1?
 
  • #10
jasonchiang97 said:
Ah I squared it because I thought I would simplify after.

Okay then I would get

(Ey/b - Excos(δ)/a)/sinδ = sin(ωt)Then I use sin2(ωt) + cos2(ωt) = 1?

Yes.
 
  • #11
ehild said:
Yes.

I get

1/sinδ[Ey2/b2 + Ex2cos2δ/a2-2ExEycosδ/ab] = (1-Ex2/a)

However I am unsure of what to do with the
Ex2cos2δ/a2 on the LHS
 
Last edited:
  • #12
Thanks for your help! I figured it out
 
  • #13
jasonchiang97 said:
Thanks for your help! I figured it out
You are welcome.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
13K