Relativistic maxwell-boltzmann-distribution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution in the context of relativistic thermodynamics, particularly regarding the average speed of gas particles at high temperatures. Participants explore the implications of relativistic effects on the distribution and the appropriate formulations to use.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the nonrelativistic Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution can yield average speeds that exceed the speed of light, prompting the question of whether a relativistic distribution exists.
  • Another participant asserts that the average squared velocity in a relativistic context approaches c², emphasizing that particles cannot exceed the speed of light at any temperature.
  • A different participant critiques the lack of derivation in the relativistic formula and suggests using the partition function with a relativistic energy expression, specifically mentioning the form e^{-\beta\sqrt{m^2+p^2}}.
  • Another participant agrees with the use of the Maxwell–Juttner expression, explaining that it incorporates the Boltzmann factor and requires normalization to account for the number of particles per volume, which involves integrating over the relativistic Boltzmann factor.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the reminder to use Lagrange multipliers with relativistic expressions, indicating a shift in their understanding towards the partition function approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods for incorporating relativistic effects into the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution. There is no consensus on the best approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the relativistic formulation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the absence of detailed derivations for the relativistic formulas and the potential dependence on specific definitions of temperature and energy in the relativistic context.

magicfountain
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In thermodynamics (ignoring relativistic effects) you can use the maxwell-boltzmann-distribution to find the average speed of the gas particles.
v^2=\frac{8kT}{\pi m}

But there are high Temperatures that would have average speeds > c.
Are there distributions that describe gases with an average speed of 0.5 relativistically?
 
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Well, you have to replace the nonrelativistic formula with the relativistic one.

The average squared velocity will go towards c^2, and all particles are always slower than c for every temperature.
 
mfb said:
Well, you have to replace the nonrelativistic formula with the relativistic one.

...which to me is not very illuminating, since it's given without any derivation and written in terms of a goofy choice of variable.

Can't you just take the partition function and put in the relativistic expression for the energy? I.e.:

e^{-\beta\sqrt{m^2+p^2}}

This is in units with c=1, and beta is the inverse temperature.
 
Yes, I think so. And I see the Maxwell–Juttner expression does consist of this Boltzmann factor, plus a function of T in front. To get the factor in front you have to normalize the distribution to N particles per volume, which involves integrating over the Boltzmann factor. Nonrelativistically the integral leads to (m/2πkT)3/2. But here we have to integrate over the relativistic Boltzmann factor, and that's where the K2(T) Bessel function comes from.
 
@bcrowell
@Bill_K
that helped a lot. i guessed that i had to do lagrange multipliers with relativistic expressions, but i was too lazy to really think about it. thanks for reminding me that it actually just leads to the partition function and you have to plug in the rel. terms there.
 

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