Relativity’s Effect on Consciousness

[silas mckee]

So there will be a few hypothetical in the original story here, but in the end ill wrap it up with what I believe are facts. My question, how does einstein’s theory of relativity interact with consciousness?

Let’s say I have a twin, he becomes a farmer and I become an astronaut. I go to space one day and come back a few hours later (again hypothetical). While I was in space, I spent 5 minutes extremely close to a black hole, and of coarse that made some fun things happen with time. So I get back, and my twin no longer looks like me, I mean he does but he is about 20 years older (I didn't do the math, do crucify me! I have no clue how much time would be distorted, I just know it would be) then me now. I run up to him and just say “wow.”

Now let's look at this from his perspective; a couple hours later, I still won't be back. In fact, I won't be back for 20 years to him. Some random day he is tending his field, and looks up and see’s me, his twin he hasn't seen in 20 years, but I still look the exact same as the day I left 20 years ago. I run up to him and just say say “wow.”

Now to me, this would mean 1 of 2 things:

1) There is only 1 consciousness in the universe, (which of coarse would be mine! LOL) and all time is relative to that (I’m seriously doubting this one)

2)What we call the present is relative, and what what I consider now is really the same thing that my twin would call the future. And what my twin would call now is what I would say is 20 years in the past.

So riddle me this, if relativity affects us every day, ie. taking a plane, living in the mountains, going to the moon (or Mars GO MUSK!), is this affecting us on a microscopic level? And if so or if not, how did you come to that conclusion? And does this mean that I can possibly remember your future? Or even better, are you reading this before I’m even aware that I thought of it?

 

[tophatphysicist]

So there will be a few hypothetical in the original story here, but in the end ill wrap it up with what I believe are facts. My question, how does einstein’s theory of relativity interact with consciousness?

Let’s say I have a twin, he becomes a farmer and I become an astronaut. I go to space one day and come back a few hours later (again hypothetical). While I was in space, I spent 5 minutes extremely close to a black hole, and of coarse that made some fun things happen with time. So I get back, and my twin no longer looks like me, I mean he does but he is about 20 years older (I didn't do the math, do crucify me! I have no clue how much time would be distorted, I just know it would be) then me now. I run up to him and just say “wow.”

Now let's look at this from his perspective; a couple hours later, I still won't be back. In fact, I won't be back for 20 years to him. Some random day he is tending his field, and looks up and see’s me, his twin he hasn't seen in 20 years, but I still look the exact same as the day I left 20 years ago. I run up to him and just say say “wow.”

Now to me, this would mean 1 of 2 things:

1) There is only 1 consciousness in the universe, (which of coarse would be mine! LOL) and all time is relative to that (I’m doubting this one)

2)What we call the present is relative, and what what I consider now is really the same thing that my twin would call the future. And what my twin would call now is what I would say is 20 years in the past.

So riddle me this, if relativity affects us every day, ie. taking a plane, living in the mountains, going to the moon (or Mars GO MUSK!), is this affecting us on a microscopic level? And if so or if not, how did you come to that conclusion? And does this mean that I can possibly remember your future? Or even better, are you reading this before I’m even aware that I thought of it?

How does that possibly imply just one consciousness in the universe? Also, what does consciousness have to do with physics? Can you reference some physics publication that brings a theory of consciousness into theoretical physics?

 

[PeterDonis]

how does einstein’s theory of relativity interact with consciousness?

It doesn't at all the way you are thinking of it.

to me, this would mean 1 of 2 things

Neither of these are correct.

does this mean that I can possibly remember your future?

No.

Or even better, are you reading this before I’m even aware that I thought of it?

No.

A general principle that you appear to be missing here is that no "twin" scenario can change the ordering of events that are causally connected.

Before going any further with this topic, you should understand how the "twin paradox" actually works. I suggest reading the Usenet Physics FAQ article:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/TwinParadox/twin_paradox.html

This scenario is set in flat spacetime, not a black hole, but the general principles given in the article (and in particular the spacetime diagram analysis) are applicable to any "twin" scenario.

 

[Dale]

What we call the present is relative, and what what I consider now is really the same thing that my twin would call the future. And what my twin would call now is what I would say is 20 years in the past.

This is close. You may want to start here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity

 

[Drakkith]

So riddle me this, if relativity affects us every day, ie. taking a plane, living in the mountains, going to the moon (or Mars GO MUSK!), is this affecting us on a microscopic level? And if so or if not, how did you come to that conclusion?

Relativity affects us at every possible level, including the macroscopic, microscopic, atomic, and subatomic levels. We know because we've done experiments that validate relativity at all of these scales.

 

[Ibix]

Now to me, this would mean 1 of 2 things

The time you experience turns out to be closely analogous to distance travelled. It depends on the path you take. So the fact that you are younger than your twin, although naively surprising, isn't really any more mysterious than two cars made at the same factory meeting up somewhere and having different odometer readings. The implications are similarly mundane: one of you experienced more time than the other. It doesn't mean that you are in the future anymore than a higher odometer reading means the cars aren't in the same place. It only says something about their own personal histories getting to that point.

Your conscious experience of time is simply being used as a crude kind of clock in this case.

 

[silas mckee]

This is close. You may want to start here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity

I feel like you actually understand what I'm saying, the single consciousness was a joke, someone addressed that above and that's why I laughed at it. Thanks for the link I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this.

 

[silas mckee]

The time you experience turns out to be closely analogous to distance travelled. It depends on the path you take. So the fact that you are younger than your twin, although naively surprising, isn't really any more mysterious than two cars made at the same factory meeting up somewhere and having different odometer readings. The implications are similarly mundane: one of you experienced more time than the other. It doesn't mean that you are in the future anymore than a higher odometer reading means the cars aren't in the same place. It only says something about their own personal histories getting to that point.

Your conscious experience of time is simply being used as a crude kind of clock in this case.

How?
Just curious how you got to that conclusion.

 

[silas mckee]

It doesn't at all the way you are thinking of it.
Neither of these are correct.
No.
No.

A general principle that you appear to be missing here is that no "twin" scenario can change the ordering of events that are causally connected.

Before going any further with this topic, you should understand how the "twin paradox" actually works. I suggest reading the Usenet Physics FAQ article:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/TwinParadox/twin_paradox.html

This scenario is set in flat spacetime, not a black hole, but the general principles given in the article (and in particular the spacetime diagram analysis) are applicable to any "twin" scenario.

I feel you missed my entire purpose, read what Dale posted.
also i love how you disagree with my joke about a single consciousness, it was a joke that the only couscous i can prove is real is mine, at least as of now.
The twin paradox does not prove or disprove what i had to say, it was just a similar scenario, but posed for a different purpose. actually it might even support what i have to say.
and please tell me what consciousness is, because "it doesn't at all the way you are thinking of it." sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of it.

 

[silas mckee]

How does that possibly imply just one consciousness in the universe? Also, what does consciousness have to do with physics? Can you reference some physics publication that brings a theory of consciousness into theoretical physics?

Are you saying consciousness doesn't exist in physics? I think most people would agree there is at least one consciousness in the universe (their own), i mean we know it exist, I'm not positive how to prove it, but that doesn't mean it isn't physics.

 

[Ibix]

How?
Just curious how you got to that conclusion.

How what? The bit about conscious experience being used as a clock? Because remembering how much time has elapsed for you is the only thing you mentioned using your mind for. That's pretty much all a clock does...

 

[Drakkith]

This thread is going nowhere fast. Please look more into special relativity. It explains all of the issues regarding time and simultaneity that apply here.

Are you saying consciousness doesn't exist in physics? I think most people would agree there is at least one consciousness in the universe (their own), i mean we know it exist, I'm not positive how to prove it, but that doesn't mean it isn't physics.

Unfortunately it does mean that discussion on consciousness isn't allowed here at PF without a valid reference and only within very specific contexts in the biology forum.

Thread locked.