Reverse osmosis perpetual motion machine

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the theoretical concept of a reverse osmosis perpetual motion machine, which operates on the principles of fluid dynamics and osmotic pressure. The analysis reveals that while the pressure difference between saltwater and freshwater columns could theoretically allow for continuous flow, the laws of thermodynamics ultimately prevent the creation of a perpetual motion machine. Key calculations indicate that the osmotic pressure required to drive water from the salty side to the fresh side is 1450 kPa, while the pressure generated by the height of the columns exceeds this requirement. However, the system's cooling due to energy loss through turbines and nozzles negates any potential for perpetual motion.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of fluid dynamics principles
  • Knowledge of osmotic pressure calculations
  • Familiarity with thermodynamic laws
  • Basic concepts of pressure differentials in closed systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the van't Hoff equation for osmotic pressure
  • Explore the principles of thermodynamics related to energy conservation
  • Study fluid statics and its implications in high-pressure systems
  • Investigate the effects of compressibility in liquids under varying pressures
USEFUL FOR

Engineers, physicists, and anyone interested in the principles of fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, and the feasibility of perpetual motion machines.

  • #61
Bystander said:
"WORNG!" Salt water is around 10ppm/atm more compressible than fresh water.

Bystander, could you give a reference for this please?
 
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  • #62
DaveC426913 said:
It is not clear yet that the RO system will stop when it releases some amount of potential energy and settles to equilibrium. (We're all sure it does, we're just not sure how or where.)

For a dilute solution, letting r be the ratio between the column height and the fundamental length scale {i_H k_B T}({\kappa g})^{-1} (where \kappa is the difference in mass between a solute molecule and the solvent it displaces), reverse osmosis occurs iff the concentration at the semipermeable membrane (as a fraction of the mean concentration) is less than r. Thus the solvent will start cycling (provided r>1 and that the solution is initially mixed and not yet settled), however, at equilibrium (when the Archimedean force balances the osmotic potential gradient) the concentration increases exponentially with depth and the reverse osmosis cycle halts because the concentration at the membrane is \frac{r}{1-e^{-r}}.

Not sure yet how to generalise this to non-dilute solutions.
 
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  • #63
Here is a detailed explanation: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/osmosis.htm

The tone of the linked webpage is condescending at times (and starts off that way), but the information is useful.
 
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