Rotation of a rectangular prism.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a rectangular prism, particularly focusing on the challenges of achieving pure rotation about its axes. Participants explore the implications of stability and instability in rotational motion, referencing both theoretical concepts and practical demonstrations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that achieving pure rotation of a rectangular prism is impossible due to inherent distortions, as illustrated by the example of a spinning book.
  • Others question the validity of this claim, proposing that a machine could achieve the desired rotation without distortion.
  • One participant attributes the observed distortion to air resistance, suggesting that a denser object might behave differently.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of stability in rotation, noting that rotation about the intermediate principal axis is unstable, while the axes with maximum and minimum moments of inertia are stable.
  • Several participants reference a demonstration related to this topic and share links to external resources for further reading.
  • There is a request for a more rigorous derivation of the instability of the intermediate axis, with mentions of complex variables and various academic texts that may provide insights.
  • One participant discusses the "tennis racket theorem," explaining how perturbations behave differently depending on the axis of rotation and the implications for stability.
  • Another participant shares their findings from specific academic sources that contain derivations related to the topic, noting their complexity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of pure rotation and the reasons behind the observed distortions. While some agree on the instability of the intermediate axis, there is no consensus on the overall implications or the best explanations for the phenomena discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of rotation and the complexity of the mathematical derivations referenced. Some participants acknowledge the challenges in achieving pure rotation due to practical constraints.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying dynamics, rotational motion, or related fields in physics and engineering, particularly in understanding the stability of rotating bodies.

Fusiontron
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For some reason it is impossible for a rectangular prism to have pure rotation along one of its axises. For example, if you throw a hardback book in the air and try to spin it about its width then there is some distortion. What is the explanation for this?
 
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Fusiontron said:
For some reason it is impossible for a rectangular prism to have pure rotation along one of its axises. For example, if you throw a hardback book in the air and try to spin it about its width then there is some distortion. What is the explanation for this?

What is your evidence that this is so? I don't know one way or the other but I find it unlikely. I can certainly agree that it would be hard for a person to do it, but imagine a machine that spins the book about a line that give you the rotation that you want, and then it shoots the book straight up into the air. Why would that not work?
 
The distortion is probably due to air resistance. If you had a really dense rectangular prism (and your arm was strong enough), then I'm sure you could make it work.
 
Rotation about one of the three principal axes is unstable. The "unstable" axis is the one with intermediate moment of inertia. The axes with maximum and minimum moment of inertia are stable. It is a general property, not related to air drag.
Try to throw the book when spinning around a different axis.
 
nasu is correct; I do this demonstration in class.

http://www.aerostudents.com/files/dynamicsAndStability/rigidBodies.pdf

(section 3.3)
 
Andy Resnick said:
nasu is correct; I do this demonstration in class.

http://www.aerostudents.com/files/dynamicsAndStability/rigidBodies.pdf

(section 3.3)

Thank you. I'll look through this document.

EDIT: Is there a more rigorous derivation of this? I was told it involves complex variables.
 
Interesting stuff. And thanks Andy for the pdf. Unfortunately, it doesn't give an explanation of why one of the principle axis is unstable, it simply says "It can be derived"
 
Fusiontron said:
Thank you. I'll look through this document.

EDIT: Is there a more rigorous derivation of this? I was told it involves complex variables.

BruceW said:
Interesting stuff. And thanks Andy for the pdf. Unfortunately, it doesn't give an explanation of why one of the principle axis is unstable, it simply says "It can be derived"

I'll look around and see what I can find.
 
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=33367&highlight=spinning

see post#14
 
  • #10
Fusiontron said:
Is there a more rigorous derivation of this? I was told it involves complex variables.

See http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teachin...on/node71.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #11
This is sometimes called the "tennis racket theorem". It can be derived from a perturbative solution to Euler's equations (torque free).

If you have rotation around any of the 3 principle axes, perturbations about 2 of the axes will lead to nice oscillations in the rotation (I forget if it's called nutation or w/e), but perturbations about the intermediate axis will lead to exponential growth in the perturbation (and therefore violating the validity of your perturbative solution).

Euler's equations (torque free):

[tex]I_1\frac{d}{dt}\omega_1=(I_2-I_3)\omega_2\omega_3[/tex]
[tex]I_2\frac{d}{dt}\omega_2=(I_3-I_1)\omega_3\omega_1[/tex]
[tex]I_3\frac{d}{dt}\omega_3=(I_1-I_2)\omega_1\omega_2[/tex]

So, if we take the rotation to be almost all in the 1-axis (e.g. omega2 and omega 3 are small), and work to first order

We find that omega1 is roughly constant because we neglect the second order in smallness for the omega2*omega3 term; however, for omega 2 term (for example):

[tex]\frac{d^2}{dt^2}\omega_2=\left[\frac{(I_3-I_1)(I_1-I_2)}{I_3 I_2}\omega_1^2\right]\omega_2[/tex] (hopefully I did the algebra right).

We see then that for the omega2 term to remain small (and oscillate), then I1 must either be the largest or the smallest moment of inertia (thereby making the coefficient on the right hand side negative). If I1 is an intermediate moment of inertia, the coefficient on the right hand side is positive, and that means the solution for omega2 is exponential growth and not oscillatory.

One should note, though, that if you can PERFECTLY make the rotation ONLY on the 1-axis (with omega2 and omega3 being identically 0), then even if the 1-axis is the unstable axis, you won't get any wobbling. But this only works if you can make the rotation ONLY around the 1-axis.
 
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  • #12
Thanks, Matterwave. I found derivations in Landau&Lifgarbagez (section 37) and Arnold's "Mathematical Methods of Classical Mechanics" (section 29), but they are both horribly ugly. The derivation in Goldstein (chapter 5.6) is close to what you posted.
 

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