Rth = (8 || 12) + 36 = 74.2 Ohms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Thevenin equivalent of a circuit with given voltage and current sources. Participants explore methods for calculating the Thevenin resistance and voltage, addressing confusion around circuit simplifications and the application of mesh current analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the correctness of their calculated Thevenin resistance, initially stating it as 74.2 ohms.
  • Another participant suggests that the 8 Ω and 12 Ω resistors become parallel when the sources are suppressed, indicating a potential error in the first participant's approach.
  • A later reply indicates a recalculated Thevenin resistance of 7.5 ohms, but questions arise regarding the simplification of resistors to 10 ohms.
  • One participant describes using mesh current analysis to find the short circuit current and subsequently calculates the Thevenin voltage based on their findings.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about the reasoning behind the parallel configuration of the 8 Ω and 12 Ω resistors when independent sources are removed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the calculations and simplifications, with multiple competing views regarding the methods used and the resulting values for Thevenin resistance and voltage.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the application of circuit simplification techniques and mesh analysis, indicating potential gaps in understanding the underlying concepts.

roinujo1
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Homework Statement


Find the thevenin equivalent of the cicuit shown below with V=500 V and i=10 A
upload_2016-10-3_14-50-56.png


Homework Equations


Voc=Vth
Isc=VN

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
So, to solve this, I used my instructors method of first finding the Rth. So, what I did was set the independent sources to 0(based on the fact that Rsource doesn't change based on Vth), and tried to solve for the resistance. I used the y-Δ transformation on the three at the bottom and got my Rsource. However, I am confused as to if this is right or if I am allowed to do that. I got Rsource to be 74.2 ohms, and that doesn't look correct, so I can't really move from there.
 
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Hi roinujo1,

You're right, your result doesn't look correct. You'll have to show the details of your work if we're to spot what went wrong. I will mention, though, that if the sources are suppressed the 8 Ω resistor becomes parallel to the 12 Ω resistor, so the "Y" disappears. You might want to spend a bit more time redrawing and simplifying the circuit before bringing out the Y-Δ machinery :smile:.
 
Thank you soo much for the reply.So, I did some reworking and got an answer to the problem. For the resistance, I got Rth=7.5 ohms.
Before we move on, is this correct? And, is it in parallel because if we remove the independent sources the only "current that should be flowing is from the a to the b nodes? I really am having trouble using the open and short circuit stuff.

So, after that, i used mesh current analysis to find what the Ishortcircuit is. To do this, I simplified the 3 resistors at the bottom to 10 ohms:
upload_2016-10-3_17-3-47.png


Sorr for the shitty drawing. So basically, I found i1 and i2 and said i1 is=ix and ix=Isc. So, I found the Vth by using Isc/Rth.
 
Your result of 7.5 Ω for the Thevenin resistance looks good. But I'm having my doubts about your simplification in the latest diagram. In particular, the reduction of the three resistors to the 10 Ω value looks dubious, as the current source and 30 Ω resistor are connected to related nodes.

Here's a trick you can try. Convert the current source and its 30 Ω resistor to their Thevenin equivalent. Then note that the "new" voltage source sits atop the 500 V voltage source which gives it a fixed potential of 500 V above the reference node b. It's perfectly legal to duplicate the 500 V source and move the connection of the new Thevenin model away from that node, provided that the new 500 V source is connected to node b as well. Like this:

upload_2016-10-3_18-43-31.png
Convert current source to voltage source, then:

upload_2016-10-3_18-45-30.png


Now you can proceed to simplify this new layout.
 
Thanks for the response again! I really wish I could use this technique, I don't understand it enough and chicked out. What I ended up doing is mesh analysis, but this time using the original 3 resistors without combining them:
upload_2016-10-3_18-22-50.png


And I found i1=69.97 A,i2=56.67 A, and i3=26.67 A

i2=ishort circuit

I then used ohms law to get the Vth=Rth*ishort circuit which i got to =425.03 V approximately.

How about that?
 
That looks good.
 
Thank you so much for the help! Could you by chance help me understnad why the 8 and 12 are in parallel?Are they in parallel because if we remove the independent sources the only "current" that should be flowing is from the a to the b nodes?
 
roinujo1 said:
Thank you so much for the help! Could you by chance help me understnad why the 8 and 12 are in parallel?Are they in parallel because if we remove the independent sources the only "current" that should be flowing is from the a to the b nodes?
The procedure for finding the Thevenin resistance involves suppressing the fixed sources. For voltage sources that means replacing them with a short circuit (basically a wire), and for current source, replacing them with an open circuit (removing them). In this problem, suppressing the voltage source places the 8 and 12 Ohm resistors in parallel.

The circuit with the sources suppressed:
upload_2016-10-3_21-20-53.png
 
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