# Science with Ghosts OR Religion with Ghosts

Tsunami masquerading as Ivan now? Who knows what tricks they'll be up to next?
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking If this was anyone's story but mine I would likely agree with you. I just don't see anyway possible to fake a force at a location directly in my sight and within 5 feet.
I haven't a clue either, but I also haven't a clue how David Blaine levitates 5 inches off the ground 5 feet in front of people.
You keep alluding to the smell, the key is the force.
I agree the force is the harder thing to account for.
There is no way that anyone could have been in that room; but I realize that in the end, to everyone except Tsunami and I, this is just another story.
Er...once you put it that way, there is a possibility which is not supernatural, but almost ends up being creepier to consider than an authentic ghost.

People can be hypnotized to subtract things from their perceptions. In other words a person can be hypnotized with the suggestion that they will not be able to see or hear another specific person once a post hypnotic trigger is pulled.

This sometimes happens to people who are hallucinating for one reason or another anyway: instead of seeing things that aren't there they can't see things that are there. It's called a negative hallucination.

I bring it up simply because it is a scientific fact, is repeatable and all that, and therefore stands in front of the notion of an authentic ghost as an explanation.

In suggesting it was some kind of hoax, I wasn't thinking in terms of someone being in the room, but of them having planted some mechanism under the waterbed mattress.

Then, of course, I have to wonder if it wasn't something completely peculiar, but silly, like the webbing that holds the top of the mattress to the bottom being prone to spot contractions when the temperature is just right.

i beg to differ, situations like that, cannot be explained that easily

Originally posted by decibel
i beg to differ, situations like that, cannot be explained that easily
That's what they said about crop circles.

but now ur going from ghosts to aliens

Originally posted by decibel
but now ur going from ghosts to aliens
I'm not talking about either one. I'm talking about hoaxes in general, at this point.

Thousands of people got suckered into believing in the Fox sisters, the Cardiff giant, and crop circles, all of which were later revealed to be hoaxes. In each of these cases there were people saying "You can't explain this away that easily." That stance holds no water.

I'm also not trying to explain any of the stories people have told here "away". They're all in the past and no one can investigate any of them. I have no obvious explanation for what Artman and his wife saw, what Ivan and Tsunami experienced, for what happened to Atheistworld's barn door. Therefore I consider all these things "unexplained". It is the only accurate thing anyone can say.

Given the weight on the bed, the smell from nowhere, and the caretaker's story about the woman who died and her "visits" to other tenants it may seem like common sence to conclude ghosts are real. However, it used to be common sence to look at the world around us and come to the obvious conclusion the earth was flat. It also used to be obvious that the sun revolved around the earth. Sometimes the obvious conclusion turns out to be just plain wrong.

I don't think anyone should read these stories and come to any conclusions about the existence of ghosts that they are loyal to.
The cause of the phenomena reported here is simply unexplained at this point, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by chroot
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I like this Warren, but I really did see it.

I know that there is nothing I can say that will convince you that what my dog sensed and my wife and I saw was a ghost. I don't expect you to believe the story for I can offer no proof. There is no proof. All I can say is that the story happened exactly as I related it. I don't know what ghosts are, but I do know that they exist because I saw one. And I know I saw one because my wife saw it too.

I think I need a biggie size. Do they come with a chin strap?

Originally posted by Artman
I know that there is nothing I can say that will convince you that what my dog sensed and my wife and I saw was a ghost. I don't expect you to believe the story for I can offer no proof. There is no proof. All I can say is that the story happened exactly as I related it. I don't know what ghosts are, but I do know that they exist because I saw one. And I know I saw one because my wife saw it too.
Here is what I'm saying: a ghost is the disembodied spirit of a dead person. You are applying this label to what you saw, probably because it fits the common description of a ghost.
In fact, however, no one has proven that humans exist in disembodied form after they die. The very notion of ghosts itself is speculation to try to explain what people are seeing when this sort of thing happens.

It used to be "obvious" that when
a person suddenly fell to the ground and began convulsing, that they had been grabbed (seized) by a spirit, god, or demon. What else could it have been? The attacker was completely invisible!

"Ghosts" have been spotted throughout mankind's history, but what they are is completely unexplained. To assert any unscientifically testable explanation for them and be loyal to it is meaningless jumping to conclusions.

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