Second Derivative of a Composition of Functions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the second derivative of a composition of two functions, specifically using the chain rule and product rule in calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of the chain rule and product rule to find the second derivative of a composition of functions. Questions arise regarding the interpretation of the notation d/dx(df/dg) and its implications for higher-order derivatives.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, sharing specific examples and generalizing findings. Some guidance has been offered regarding the notation and the correct formulation of the second derivative, though there is still uncertainty about the expressions used.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of confusion surrounding the notation and the treatment of higher-order derivatives in calculus literature, indicating a potential gap in resources or explanations available to learners.

skyline01
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Homework Statement


Derive an expression for the composition of 2 functions.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I started with supposing that y(x) = f(g(x)). I know that dy/dx = df/dg * dg/dx (via the chain rule). Doing the derivative again, I started with the product rule:
d2y/dx2 = d/dx (df/dg * dg/dx) = df/dg * d2g/dx2 + dg/dx * d/dx (df/dg).

I don't know what d/dx (df/dg) means. I think I'm supposed to do the chain rule again on this part, but I'm not totally clear. Thanks!
 
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skyline01 said:

Homework Statement


Derive an expression for the composition of 2 functions.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution


I started with supposing that y(x) = f(g(x)). I know that dy/dx = df/dg * dg/dx (via the chain rule). Doing the derivative again, I started with the product rule:
d2y/dx2 = d/dx (df/dg * dg/dx) = df/dg * d2g/dx2 + dg/dx * d/dx (df/dg).

I don't know what d/dx (df/dg) means. I think I'm supposed to do the chain rule again on this part, but I'm not totally clear. Thanks!
Hello skyline01. Welcome to PF !

One suggestion is to to look at some specific examples, such as y(x) = sin(x5).

Then f(x) = sin(x), g(x) = x5 .
 
Thank you, SammyS! I tried the sample function you suggested, but I'm still not sure if I am expressing d/dx (df/dg) correctly. Here is how your sample function worked out:

y(x) = sin(x5)
So, f(x) = sin(x) and g(x) = x5.
Therefore,
dy/dx = cos(x5) 5x4
and
d2y/dx2 = cos(x5) 20x3 + 5x4 (-sin(x5)) 5x4.

Generalizing this to any composition of 2 functions, we have
d2y/dx2 = df/dg * d2g/dx2 + dg/dx * d2f/dg2.

Does this look right?
 
skyline01 said:
Thank you, SammyS! I tried the sample function you suggested, but I'm still not sure if I am expressing d/dx (df/dg) correctly. Here is how your sample function worked out:

y(x) = sin(x5)
So, f(x) = sin(x) and g(x) = x5.
Therefore,
dy/dx = cos(x5) 5x4
and
d2y/dx2 = cos(x5) 20x3 + 5x4 (-sin(x5)) 5x4.

Generalizing this to any composition of 2 functions, we have
d2y/dx2 = df/dg * d2g/dx2 + dg/dx * d2f/dg2.

Does this look right?
Almost correct.

d2y/dx2 = df/dg * d2g/dx2 + (dg/dx)2 * d2f/dg2.
 
Yes, you are correct. Thank you for catching that. So,
d/dx(df/dg) = dg/dx * d2f/dg2.

I find it strange that in every calculus book I have ever read (including real analysis books), they always stop at the first derivative when discussing the chain rule.
 
Yes, that is strange.

The notation can be confusing, even for 1st derivatives, but as you mentioned in your initial post, it gets quite a bit more confusing with higher order derivatives. That's why I suggested differentiating a concrete example.

Here's a link from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_rule#Higher_derivatives.

Have a good one !
SammyS
 

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