What is the solution to the self-reference problem in fields?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the topic of the action of an electric field around an electron and how it affects other charged particles. The inverse square law is mentioned and the issue of the electric field having an infinite strength at the electron's location is raised. The concept of self-reference is also brought up and the role of perturbation theory is presumed to play a part in understanding it. The solution to this problem involves assuming that the electron is not pointlike and using renormalization to make the theory more manageable. The conversation ends with a grateful acknowledgement to Demystifier for clarifying the issue.
  • #1
nomadreid
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This is a well-known problem, the solution I have read a long time ago, but apparently never completely understood, and now am not sure where to look to try again. This concerns the action of a field, say an electric field around an electron, for definitiveness. The electric field affects all charged particles with a strength according to the inverse square law. So far, classical. However, one of the charged particles in the field is that electron itself, and since the distance from it to itself is zero, we get an infinite strength; also one could see it as accumulating an exponentially growing number of virtual carrier particles. Since this does not happen, how does this "self-reference" work itself out? I presume perturbation theory works itself into this somewhere.
Thanks in advance.
 
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  • #2
Basically, it works like this. You assume that the electron is small but not exactly pointlike, which replaces infinite quantities by large but finite ones. Then you rename certain not directly measurable quantities in the theory such that the measurable ones do not depend on the exact size of the electron. This procedure is called renormalization.
 
  • #3
Thanks, Demystifier. That is a big help.
 

1. What is self-reference for fields?

Self-reference for fields refers to the phenomenon where a particular field or area of study is used to describe itself. This can occur when a theory or concept is applied to itself, leading to circular reasoning or paradoxical statements.

2. Why is self-reference for fields important in science?

Self-reference for fields can be important in science because it can reveal limitations or inconsistencies in a theory or concept. It can also lead to new insights and discoveries, as well as help identify areas for further research.

3. How does self-reference for fields relate to Gödel's incompleteness theorems?

Gödel's incompleteness theorems state that any formal system, including mathematics, is either incomplete or inconsistent. Self-reference for fields can be seen as an example of this, as it can lead to paradoxes and contradictions within a formal system.

4. What are some examples of self-reference for fields in science?

One famous example is the liar paradox, which states "this statement is false." This statement refers to itself, leading to a contradiction. Other examples include the concept of consciousness trying to understand itself, or the theory of evolution being used to explain the evolution of the theory itself.

5. How can scientists avoid falling into self-reference for fields?

While it may be impossible to completely avoid self-reference for fields, scientists can strive for clarity and consistency in their theories and concepts. This can involve careful examination and testing of ideas, as well as being open to revising or discarding theories if they lead to self-referential paradoxes.

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