Shannon sampling theorem and Nyquist

  • Thread starter Thread starter leright
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sampling Theorem
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between Nyquist's theorem and Shannon's sampling theorem, particularly exploring how Nyquist's work on baud rates relates to Shannon's findings on signal sampling and reconstruction. Participants are examining the implications of both theorems and their historical context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Nyquist proved a channel of bandwidth B can transmit at a baud rate of 2B, while Shannon later established that a signal sampled at a rate of at least 2B can be reconstructed.
  • One participant expresses confusion about how Nyquist's theorem implies Shannon's theorem, stating that the only apparent connection is the '2B' aspect.
  • Another participant references Wikipedia, mentioning that Nyquist's work implied the sampling theorem but did not explicitly address sampling and reconstruction of continuous signals.
  • Some participants discuss the dual nature of Nyquist's and Shannon's results, questioning the specifics of why they are considered duals.
  • It is suggested that Nyquist introduced the concept of a sampling rate, while Shannon addressed the need to sample at 2B to avoid issues like aliasing.
  • A participant states that sending a signal at a baud rate of 2B is the inverse operation of sampling a signal at a frequency of 2B.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the historical contributions of Nyquist and Shannon but disagree on the specifics of how their theorems relate to each other, particularly regarding the implications of Nyquist's work for sampling and reconstruction.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of the terms used in the discussion, such as "duals" and the concepts of sampling and reconstruction. Some participants express uncertainty about the historical context and the completeness of Nyquist's considerations regarding aliasing.

leright
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
19
I understand that it was Nyquist who proved that a channel of bandwidth B can transmit at a baud rate of 2B. Also, Shannon, about 10 years later showed that if a signal is sampled at a rate of at least 2B, where B is the bandwidth of the bandlimited signal, then the signal can be reconstructed from the samples. I read that Nyquist's theorem implies shannon's theorem, but I do not see how this is the case.

It is for this reason that the sampling theorem is sometimes called the 'shannon-nyquist theorem'. However, I cannot make the connection between the two theorems. The only connection I see is the '2B' part. For this reason, I don't really see why Nyquist deserves any credit for the sampling theorem...
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Taken from Wikipedia:

"The sampling theorem was implied by the work of Harry Nyquist in 1928 ("Certain topics in telegraph transmission theory"), in which he showed that up to 2B independent pulse samples could be sent through a system of bandwidth B; but he did not explicitly consider the problem of sampling and reconstruction of continuous signals. About the same time, Karl Küpfmüller showed a similar result[1], and discussed the sinc-function impulse response of a band-limiting filter, via its integral, the step response Integralsinus; this bandlimiting and reconstruction filter that is so central to the sampling theorem is sometimes referred to as a Küpfmüller filter (but seldom so in English).

The sampling theorem, essentially a dual of Nyquist's result, was proved by Claude E. Shannon in 1949 ("Communication in the presence of noise"). V. A. Kotelnikov published similar results in 1933 ("On the transmission capacity of the 'ether' and of cables in electrical communications", translation from the Russian), as did the mathematician E. T. Whittaker in 1915 ("Expansions of the Interpolation-Theory", "Theorie der Kardinalfunktionen"), J. M. Whittaker in 1935 ("Interpolatory function theory"), and Gabor in 1946 ("Theory of communication")."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theorem
 
I saw that article. I understand they are duals, but WHY are they duals? I cannot make the connection.
 
...in which he showed that up to 2B independent pulse samples could be sent through a system of bandwidth B; but he did not explicitly consider the problem of sampling and reconstruction of continuous signals.

It doesn't seem that there's much more to it than that. Nyquist introduced the concept of a sampling rate... or a sampled signal, while Shannon deduced this result to explain that you need to sample 2B to reconstruct a continuous signal out of samples. I don't think Nyquist considered the problems of aliasing, etc. Shannon must have.
 
Sending a signal with baud rate 2B is the inverse operation of sampling a signal with sample frequency 2B.

- Warren
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
4K
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
11K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K