SHO Ladder Method missed states?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the ladder operators in the context of the Simple Harmonic Oscillator (SHO) Hamiltonian, specifically regarding their role in transitioning between energy eigenstates and the implications for the quantization of energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how it is known that the ladder operators \( a \) and \( a^\dagger \) raise and lower energy states by one quantum of energy, specifically \( \hbar \omega \).
  • Another participant summarizes Griffiths' derivation, stating that the eigenstates correspond to non-negative integers and that the sequence of energy eigenstates must terminate at the ground state.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the implications if an eigenstate has an eigenvalue that does not fit the expected quantized values, raising the possibility of contradictions.
  • A later reply elaborates on the non-negativity of eigenvalues of the number operator and provides a detailed argument supporting that the only eigenvalues are non-negative integers.
  • One participant humorously notes their intention to leave the question open for further exploration by the original poster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the ladder operators and the nature of the energy eigenvalues. There is no consensus on the certainty of the ladder operators' behavior or the smallest quantum of energy.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the normalization of eigenstates and the properties of hermitian operators, which are not fully resolved. The implications of eigenvalues not fitting the expected quantization are also left open.

aimforclarity
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Following Griffiths derivation on pg 44 of the eigen-states of SHO Hamiltonian, he says that we can now find all eigenvalues, but doesn't say how he knows that a and a dagger will indeed take you between nearest neighboring orthogonal states.

in other words, how do we know the ladder operators does raise us by quanta of energy,

or equivalently, how do we know that hbar omega is the smallest quanta of energy give the SHO Hamiltonian ?

Thank you :)

Aim For Clarity
 
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1) H = a*a + ½. This means that any energy eigenstate is an eigenstate of the number operator N = a*a.
2) Given any energy eigenstate |E> with eigenvalue E, show that an|E> is also an eigenstate with eigenvalue E - n. Thus we can construct a sequence of eigenstates with progressively lower energy.
3) There will fail to be a ground state unless the sequence terminates. From the normalization, one finds that the sequence will terminate only if E - n = 0 for some n. Therefore the only possible eigenvalues are zero and the positive integers, and (a*)n|0> are the only eigenstates.
 
Bill_K said:
1) H = a*a + ½. This means that any energy eigenstate is an eigenstate of the number operator N = a*a.
2) Given any energy eigenstate |E> with eigenvalue E, show that an|E> is also an eigenstate with eigenvalue E - n. Thus we can construct a sequence of eigenstates with progressively lower energy.
3) There will fail to be a ground state unless the sequence terminates. From the normalization, one finds that the sequence will terminate only if E - n = 0 for some n. Therefore the only possible eigenvalues are zero and the positive integers, and (a*)n|0> are the only eigenstates.

this is all true, and is a summary of grifits derivation, but it it doesn't tell you that the raising and lowering operators take you between nearest orthogonal states. what is they raised and lowered by two quanta of energy,

how do you know what the smallest quanta of energy is?
 
Given (2) to be true, if we have another eigenstate of H with eigenvalue NOT equal to hw(n+1/2) where n is an integer, then we get a problem. Can you see what this problem is?

(so for example, say we have an eigenstate of H with eigenvalue (4 + 1/3)hw. Try and get a contradiction.)
 
It follows from the fact that the eignevalues of the hermitian operator \hat{n} = \hat{a}^{\dagger} \, \hat{a} are non-negative! Namely, let:
<br /> \hat{n} \, \vert \nu \rangle = \nu \, \vert \nu \rangle<br />
Assuming the eigenket \vert \nu \rangle is normalized to unity (\langle \nu \vert \nu \rangle = 1), we have:
<br /> \nu = \langle \nu \vert \hat{n} \vert \nu \rangle = \langle \nu \vert \hat{a}^{\dagger} \, \hat{a} \vert \nu \rangle<br />
Now, insert a compete orthonormal basis \lbrace k&#039; \rbrace between \hat{a} and \hat{a}^\dagger:
<br /> \nu = \sum_{k&#039;}{\langle \nu \vert \hat{a}^{\dagger} \vert k&#039; \rangle \, \langle k&#039; \vert \hat{a} \vert \nu \rangle} = \sum_{k&#039;}{\left\vert \langle k&#039; \vert \hat{a} \vert \nu \rangle \right\vert^2}<br />
Each of the summands is a non-zero real number, being a modulus of a complex number. Therefore, \nu \ge 0.

Now, from the commutation relation \left[ \hat{a}, \hat{a}^\dagger \right] = 1, it follows that the ket:
<br /> \hat{a} \, \vert \nu \rangle<br />
is also an eigenket of \hat{n}, corresponding to an eigenvalue \nu - 1. By inductive reasoning, we conclude that \nu - n, \forall n \in \mathbb{N} are also eigenvalues of the number operator.

So, let us suppose that N + 1 &gt; \nu \ge N \ge 0, \ N \in \mathbb{N}. This means that \nu - N - 1 &lt; 0, which is not allowed (because all the eigenvalues are non-negative!). The only way out is if \left( \hat{a} \right)^{N + 1} \, \vert \nu \rangle = 0 (not the ground state \vert 0 \rangle, but the zero ket in the Hilbert space!). But, then apply \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^{N + 1} from the left, and use:
===================================================================================
<br /> \hat{X}_m \equiv \left[ \hat{a}^\dagger, \hat{a}^m \right]<br />
<br /> \hat{X}_{m + 1} = \left[ \hat{a}^\dagger, \hat{a} \, \hat{a}^m \right] = \hat{a} \, \left[ \hat{a}^\dagger, \hat{a}^m \right] + \left[ \hat{a}^\dagger, \hat{a} \right] \, \hat{a}^m = \hat{a} \, \hat{X}_m - \hat{a}^m<br />
<br /> \hat{X}_0 = 0<br />
<br /> \hat{X}_1 = \hat{a} \, 0 - \hat{1} = -\hat{1}<br />
<br /> \hat{X}_2 = \hat{a} \, (-\hat{1}) - \hat{a} = -2 \, \hat{a}<br />
...
Lemma:
<br /> \boxed{\hat{X}_m = -m \, \hat{a}^{m - 1}, \ m \ge 1}<br />
Proof:
<br /> \hat{X}_{m + 1} = \hat{a} \, \left(-m \, \hat{a}^{m - 1} \right) - \hat{a}^{m} = -(m + 1) \, \hat{a}^{m}<br />
By Principle of Mathematical Induction, Q.E.D.
===================================================================================

Then, we have:
<br /> \begin{array}{lcl}<br /> \left(\hat{a}^\dagger\right)^{N + 1} \, \hat{a}^{N + 1} \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \hat{a}^\dagger \, \hat{a}^{N + 1} \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \left( \hat{a}^{N + 1} \, \hat{a}^\dagger + X_{N + 1} \right) \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \left[ \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \hat{a}^{N} \, \hat{a} \, \hat{a}^\dagger - (N + 1) \, \left( \hat{a}^\dagger\right )^{N} \, \hat{a}^{N} \right] \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \left[ \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \hat{a}^{N} \left( \hat{n} + 1 \right) - (N + 1) \, \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \hat{a}^{N} \right] \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \left( \nu - N \right) \, \left( \hat{a}^\dagger \right)^N \, \hat{a}^{N} \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0 \\<br /> <br /> \ldots &amp; &amp; \\<br /> <br /> \left( \nu - N \right) \, \left( \nu - N + 1\right) \, \ldots \nu \, \vert \nu \rangle &amp; = &amp; 0<br /> \end{array}<br />
Now, from the initial assumption \vert \nu \rangle \neq 0 (not a trivial eigenket), and N \le \nu &lt; N + 1, we conclude that \nu = N.

This means that the only eigenvalues of the number operator \hat{n} = \hat{a}^\dagger \, \hat{a} are the non-negative integers. Q.E.D.
 
LOL

I meant to leave the question open so that OP could answer it himself... oh well
 
Dickfore said:
Q.E.D.
Thanks a lot!
 

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