Programs Should I Major in Physics Without Prior Experience?

[Carnivroar]

I'm not sure if it's for me. I've never taken a physics course before, not even in high school. But I have an idea of what I'd be getting into, I've read a bit of material on my own.

I have a good GPA (3.7), I'm decent in math (which is my 1st major actually) but I'm still not sure if I could handle physics. Initially I chose the math route because I hate writing and liberal arts in general but I really enjoyed calculus 1. Don't know what kind of job I want, but wouldn't mind working outside the physics field.

What do you suggest?

 

[micromass]

Hi Carnivroar!

Take a few physics courses and see if you like it! You have some time to declare your major, anyways...

 

[lisab]

I second what micromass suggests. You'll never know until you try, so try! You're already ahead of the game since you've completed calc. Just be ready to devote a lot of time to it.

Good luck!

 

[Carnivroar]

That seems like the most natural answer but I'm afraid that once I've made the commitment, I can't go back, as I'm already graduating late and can't waste time. If I were to decide not to do it anymore after I started, I'd still have the math major, just not a second one (which I'm deciding between physics and comp sci). So it's not the end of the world but it would be a loss of opportunity. Same dilemma if I were to chose comp sci haha, either way I'm at a crossroad.

I really regret not having taken a physics course to fulfill my science requirement!

 

[Choppy]

Have you looked into geophysics at all? It's my understanding they do a lot of outside work.

I can certainly appreciate the not wanting to waste time viewpoint. University costs a lot of money and you don't want to put too much time into exploring something you might or might not like - particularly if you already feel you've wasted time as it is. But I don't think there's any other way to really know if a field is for you.

 

[Pengwuino]

That seems like the most natural answer but I'm afraid that once I've made the commitment, I can't go back, as I'm already graduating late and can't waste time. If I were to decide not to do it anymore after I started, I'd still have the math major, just not a second one (which I'm deciding between physics and comp sci). So it's not the end of the world but it would be a loss of opportunity. Same dilemma if I were to chose comp sci haha, either way I'm at a crossroad.

I really regret not having taken a physics course to fulfill my science requirement!

What is your hurry to graduate?

 

[Carnivroar]

What is your hurry to graduate?

Any more than 5 years would be a bit too much don't you think?

 

[Carnivroar]

Have you looked into geophysics at all? It's my understanding they do a lot of outside work.

I can certainly appreciate the not wanting to waste time viewpoint. University costs a lot of money and you don't want to put too much time into exploring something you might or might not like - particularly if you already feel you've wasted time as it is. But I don't think there's any other way to really know if a field is for you.

Never looked into geophysics but outside work sounds interesting.

 

[Pengwuino]

Any more than 5 years would be a bit too much don't you think?

The average time taken to graduate is around 6 years in the US. Enjoy college and get the most out of it, you'll never get a chance to go back. Not a single person I know has said that they wish they had gone through their college career quicker. Hell, my adviser a couple years back who went to MIT then VATech said the best parts of his life were during his time at school.

If you don't even know what kind of jobs you would want, that's a huge sign that looking into Physics for a year or maybe even a semester is a good idea if it doesn't create a huge financial strain. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. You'll never know if you don't try.

Talk to some of the professors as well because the introductory courses can be very dry and tedious and don't really look at what physics really is about. Maybe even talk to physics grad students, see what the field is like.

 

[Carnivroar]

The average time taken to graduate is around 6 years in the US. Enjoy college and get the most out of it, you'll never get a chance to go back. Not a single person I know has said that they wish they had gone through their college career quicker. Hell, my adviser a couple years back who went to MIT then VATech said the best parts of his life were during his time at school.

If you don't even know what kind of jobs you would want, that's a huge sign that looking into Physics for a year or maybe even a semester is a good idea if it doesn't create a huge financial strain. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. You'll never know if you don't try.

Talk to some of the professors as well because the introductory courses can be very dry and tedious and don't really look at what physics really is about. Maybe even talk to physics grad students, see what the field is like.

Sounds reassuring, thanks for the response. I'll certainly go for it as I have no other choice but to dive into either physics or comp sci.

I did talk to the physics head of the department, she was very helpful and seemed to appreciate my interest in the major.

 

[HeLiXe]

Hi Carnivroar (love the username btw LOL),
I decided to major in physics before I had any courses in physics. I also used to read a lot and study things related to physics before taking physics (including the astrophysical journal which I really enjoyed and was totally able to follow). This semester I have my first course in physics. I would recommend taking at least one course OR buy a physics textbook and study it for yourself. I am using Physics for Scientists and Engineers by Serway and Jewett, and a lot of people recommend the book by Halliday Resnick. So far I am not such a fan of this book because I wish there were more worked examples, but I am purchasing the solutions manual as I heard it is also helpful. Physics is different from what I expected, learning math comes MUCH more natural to me. I know how to solve things quite easily in physics but applying the equations throws me off a little lol.

Just offering my experience in hopes that you can find something useful in it! All the best :)

 

[HerrProfessor]

In my modest opinion, the decision depends upon the more subtle and intimate details of your nature with which I, a mere stranger, am not familiar. It is pivotal, however, to understand the basic dichotomy between mathematics and physics-- Ask yourself if you like math for the sake of the proofs and the elegance of the theorems, or if you just like doing a Laplace transform or rotating a point around the complex plane? If it is not MATH ITSELF that you enjoy, but simply DOING MATH, more particularly, APPLYING MATH, than physics may be for you... But as you feel pressured to make some binding decision, move cautiously.

Physics is as much about method-- interpreting what the math reveals in nature-- as it is about equations. Understanding fluid flow, electromagnetic fields, optics and wave equations, wave functions of a single electron in a solid lattice; these are all PHYSICAL phenomenon, but which exhibit quantitative properties, thus math is applied to describe them, model them and, in rare albeit wonderful cases, explore them and tease out genuine insights. But an interest in the aforementioned problems is important... Decide whether or not this is what you're interested in. Read popular books on science, read textbooks (but don't let either misguide you, mind).

Best of luck in making your decision!
Let us know what you end up doing!

 

[Carnivroar]

Hi Carnivroar (love the username btw LOL),
I decided to major in physics before I had any courses in physics. I also used to read a lot and study things related to physics before taking physics (including the astrophysical journal which I really enjoyed and was totally able to follow). This semester I have my first course in physics. I would recommend taking at least one course OR buy a physics textbook and study it for yourself. I am using Physics for Scientists and Engineers by Serway and Jewett, and a lot of people recommend the book by Halliday Resnick. So far I am not such a fan of this book because I wish there were more worked examples, but I am purchasing the solutions manual as I heard it is also helpful. Physics is different from what I expected, learning math comes MUCH more natural to me. I know how to solve things quite easily in physics but applying the equations throws me off a little lol.

Just offering my experience in hopes that you can find something useful in it! All the best :)

Looks like we are in the same boat. Thanks for your insight and good luck with your choice!

 

[Carnivroar]

In my modest opinion, the decision depends upon the more subtle and intimate details of your nature with which I, a mere stranger, am not familiar. It is pivotal, however, to understand the basic dichotomy between mathematics and physics-- Ask yourself if you like math for the sake of the proofs and the elegance of the theorems, or if you just like doing a Laplace transform or rotating a point around the complex plane? If it is not MATH ITSELF that you enjoy, but simply DOING MATH, more particularly, APPLYING MATH, than physics may be for you... But as you feel pressured to make some binding decision, move cautiously.

Physics is as much about method-- interpreting what the math reveals in nature-- as it is about equations. Understanding fluid flow, electromagnetic fields, optics and wave equations, wave functions of a single electron in a solid lattice; these are all PHYSICAL phenomenon, but which exhibit quantitative properties, thus math is applied to describe them, model them and, in rare albeit wonderful cases, explore them and tease out genuine insights. But an interest in the aforementioned problems is important... Decide whether or not this is what you're interested in. Read popular books on science, read textbooks (but don't let either misguide you, mind).

Best of luck in making your decision!
Let us know what you end up doing!

I enjoy both applied and pure mathematics, but a bit more of the former. Pure maths is so complicated yet fascinating, I would love to study it, but I can't see myself working in the field.

I've always wanted to double major in math and either physics or comp sci, but I had never considered double majoring in the latter two. I still have time to go that way. I am taking a programming course this summer and I am loving it so far. Comp sci would improve my chances of getting a job. I think I just wanted a math degree for the sake of it, like a challenge.

 

[Fizex]

Maybe you can try watching MIT opencourseware lectures as an alternative to taking the course? There are also exams you can take too to see if you can solve problems and use physics. There is no better physics lecturer than Walter Lewin IMO. Disclaimer: Not everything in physics is as fun as this guy makes it out to be.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-classical-mechanics-fall-1999/

 

[HeLiXe]

Looks like we are in the same boat. Thanks for your insight and good luck with your choice!

Thank you, same to you. I have to take one thing back though:

So far I am not such a fan of this book because I wish there were more worked examples, but I am purchasing the solutions manual as I heard it is also helpful.

The problems in this book are itemized according to what is taught in each section so the worked examples are adequate.

 

[Carnivroar]

Maybe you can try watching MIT opencourseware lectures as an alternative to taking the course? There are also exams you can take too to see if you can solve problems and use physics. There is no better physics lecturer than Walter Lewin IMO. Disclaimer: Not everything in physics is as fun as this guy makes it out to be.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-classical-mechanics-fall-1999/

Bookmarked! Thanks.

Thank you, same to you. I have to take one thing back though:

The problems in this book are itemized according to what is taught in each section so the worked examples are adequate.

Next time I'm at the library I will have a look.

 

[Carnivroar]

I have a question, which is not really worth of a new thread (unless I get no replies).

For next semester I registered for a algebra-based physics course. It fits perfectly in my schedule.

My other option would be a calculus-based course, obviously better for a major, but it will cause too many problems in my schedule (I'd have 4 classes on the same day!).

Both can be used for the major requirement, but when I spoke to the head of the physics department, she really wanted me to take the latter.

How much would I be missing out if I take the former?

 

[Ryker]

Do those 4 classes overlap? If not, I don't see a problem.

 

[Chaostamer]

I have a question, which is not really worth of a new thread (unless I get no replies).

For next semester I registered for a algebra-based physics course. It fits perfectly in my schedule.

My other option would be a calculus-based course, obviously better for a major, but it will cause too many problems in my schedule (I'd have 4 classes on the same day!).

Both can be used for the major requirement, but when I spoke to the head of the physics department, she really wanted me to take the latter.

How much would I be missing out if I take the former?

I think the non-calculus-based Physics classes are for non-majors. At my school, any major even tangentially related to Physics (that is, Math, Computer Science, Engineering, and Chemistry) is required to take the calculus-oriented Physics sequence. Those classes are also likely to go more in-depth with the derivations which, as a Physics major, you'd probably want.

As for four classes in one day, it's not that bad. I did it last Fall and I'm doing it again this semester. It means you have to be more on top of time management, but it works.

 

[Carnivroar]

Really? I had a friend who did the same thing and he dropped out that semester.

And no the classes don't overlap, they actually fit nicely (meaning no long gaps between classes). But I'd be in school from 9am to 8pm!

Maybe I can take the course at another campus. I'll look into that.

 

[Ryker]

Maybe I can take the course at another campus. I'll look into that.

Wouldn't that be worse, since you'll lose more time? Well, in any case, I'd go with calculus-based Physics, but it's up to you to decide, of course.

 

[Carnivroar]

Wouldn't that be worse, since you'll lose more time? Well, in any case, I'd go with calculus-based Physics, but it's up to you to decide, of course.

Yes it would be worse since I'd have to spend more money on transportation, but would be worth it if the course was on a separate day.

But since you mentioned it, I'm now considering taking the 4 classes on the same day. My classes are pretty heavy this semester, I hope it's doable.

 

[HeLiXe]

I have a question, which is not really worth of a new thread (unless I get no replies).

For next semester I registered for a algebra-based physics course. It fits perfectly in my schedule.

My other option would be a calculus-based course, obviously better for a major, but it will cause too many problems in my schedule (I'd have 4 classes on the same day!).

Both can be used for the major requirement, but when I spoke to the head of the physics department, she really wanted me to take the latter.

How much would I be missing out if I take the former?

I'm quite surprised that algebra-based physics can be used for the major requirement at your school. Usually physics majors are required to take calculus based physics. If you intend to pursue graduate degrees I would recommend checking with your schools of interest to see if they require it from grad school applicants. My physics prof has expressed that for an intricate understanding of physics, calculus based physics is the way to go. I'm not sure how algebra based physics would cover things like instantaneous acceleration and velocity and some other stuff we've learned that requires calculus.

 

[Carnivroar]

Ah, in that case then comp sci is looking like a much better option. The program in our school is much better than physics, also. I won't have to worry about classes not being offered during any semester.

I'm taking programming this summer which is required for the math major... if I end up liking it, I guess I'll go for comp sci. Even if I take some comp sci courses and decide not to do it anymore, it won't be a waste, because many comp sci courses can be used towards the math major anyway.

With these two majors is there any possibility that I can become an engineer later on if I decide to?

Thank you all for the answers.

 

[HeLiXe]

I'm not sure how it would work out in grad school but I know that for undergrad engineers are required to take calculus based physics. There is some comp sci and math overlap...calculus I-III, Differential Equations and maybe statistics, but then there are intro to engineering classes, fluids, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and many other sciences that are required.

 

[Carnivroar]

I'm not sure how it would work out in grad school but I know that for undergrad engineers are required to take calculus based physics. There is some comp sci and math overlap...calculus I-III, Differential Equations and maybe statistics, but then there are intro to engineering classes, fluids, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and many other sciences that are required.

What about computer engineering? Is comp sci a better major for that particular field? Or do I still need physics?

Like I said, I could drop math and double major in comp sci and physics. But one of them will have to be a B.A degree. Two B.S's won't work. A B.S in comp sci and a B.A in physics would. Or a B.S in physics and a B.A in science.

Besides, the math degree is almost half comp sci so I might as well call it comp sci instead. There will still be plenty of math.

What do you guys think? Is a B.A. in physics worth a damn? It's only 36 credits, pretty weak. The B.S. is 55.

I just checked. If I do a B.S in comp sci and a B.A in physics I will be able to take the calc-physics class and my schedule will be somewhat better. I guess I'll go for it. I want to hear some opinions first!

 

[HeLiXe]

Computer Engineering, I really don't know. I know a little about engineering because I was considering changing my major to nuclear engineering at one point.

ZapperZ wrote a really great essay about becoming a physicist, and it really goes into detail about things:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=240792
Even if you do not want to become a physicist I think it might still be a good read for you. I found it very useful.

 

[Fizex]

For computer engineering you would need to know the physics behind circuitry. You would work on computing architectures, microelectronics, embedded systems, etc. so it's more than just math and programming. Computer engineering is more closely related to electrical/electronics engineering than CS.

Computer software engineers are really just glorified programmers.

 

[cragar]

I would do physics if you really want to know how the world works, if you look at a cloud and wonder why its white or if you really want to understand electricity or magnetism. I would only do physics if you really like it. And I learned the hard way the difference between math and physics.

 

[Carnivroar]

I would do physics if you really want to know how the world works, if you look at a cloud and wonder why its white or if you really want to understand electricity or magnetism. I would only do physics if you really like it. And I learned the hard way the difference between math and physics.

What do you mean?

 

[vhbelvadi]

Any more than 5 years would be a bit too much don't you think?

The average time taken to graduate is around 6 years in the US.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't three years the average graduation time outside the US? And that would make five years a bit too much as Carnivroar puts it.

 

[Carnivroar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't three years the average graduation time outside the US? And that would make five years a bit too much as Carnivroar puts it.

Probably because they don't have to take all these stupid liberal arts courses we have to here in the states. My first 2 years were nothing but that.

---

Also, I decided to go for comp sci + physics. I registered for the calc-based physics. A math major would eventually get too theoretical and that's not exactly what I want. Thanks for all the answers, I'm glad I came here.

 

[vhbelvadi]

I think I'm losing it... when you say graduation, you mean either a masters degree or a doctoral one? In the US you directly go from a Bachelor's degree to pursue a PhD then, I suppose; or do you have to compulsorily get a Masters degree first?

 

[Ryker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't three years the average graduation time outside the US?

No, it's not.

 

[vhbelvadi]

OK, I get it.
Outside the US, things are a little different: there's a Bachelor's degree and a compulsory Masters degree before you start your doctoral studies. Those last two degrees are, on an average three years each, making it a whole of six years.
So @Carnivroar, you're not spending too much time after all!
@Pengwuino, I stand corrected.

 

[micromass]

No, it's not.

For a bachelor, certainly yes. I got my bachelor in 3 years and my masters in 2 more years.

 

[vhbelvadi]

For a bachelor, certainly yes. I got my bachelor in 3 years and my masters in 2 more years.

Yes, that's quite what I meant. A BSc, an MSc and a PhD in a country like, say the UK, is 3, 2 and 3 years respectively. I was referring to each of them separately.

 

[Ryker]

For a bachelor, certainly yes. I got my bachelor in 3 years and my masters in 2 more years.

Yeah, but that's far from saying the average graduation time is three years, though. In a lot of countries undergraduate studies used to or still take four years, and even then students in average don't actually graduate in three or four years. For example, back home the average graduation time is about six years, even though prior to the Bologna change, students were supposed to graduate in four (plus one) years. So since there's invariably going to be more students that take longer than the prescribed time to graduate than those that take less, there's just no way you can get that average graduation time down to three years, even if all systems implemented the three-year undergraduate degree.

 

[vhbelvadi]

I think so long as you do something worthwhile all those years, it really doesn't matter how long you take to graduate! Not that it should cross ten years or anything ;-)

 

[Carnivroar]

I think that most people don't do double majors and still graduate in 4-5 years. And many of them switch majors and end up having wasted a lot of time.

I'm going for a double major and double minor. 5 years is actually little considering the amount of work I'm doing. But I'm also going to have to take classes every summer.

And if it takes another year to make my physics B.A into a B.S I'll go for it also.

 

[cragar]

What do you mean?

I just thought since I was good at calculus I would be good at physics. But it was a big wake up call for me. But not to scare you or anything physics is really fun and interesting and you take away a lot of good stuff from it.

 

[Fizex]

If you're planning to go to physics graduate school then you really need to spend summers doing REU's

 

[Carnivroar]

I just thought since I was good at calculus I would be good at physics. But it was a big wake up call for me. But not to scare you or anything physics is really fun and interesting and you take away a lot of good stuff from it.

Ah, I see. I got an A in calc 1, but I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Carnivroar]

If you're planning to go to physics graduate school then you really need to spend summers doing REU's

If I go to graduate school it will be for engineering, not physics. I hope a physics B.A will be sufficient to get me in, along with a comp sci B.S.

 

[Ryker]

Wait, so why aren't you going to study engineering then?

 

[Fizex]

Best preparation for engineering graduate school is an engineering degree. Physics -> EE might be easier than the other engineering disciplines.

 

[Carnivroar]

Wait, so why aren't you going to study engineering then?

There is no engineering at my school. I go to a public liberal arts college. Besides, engineering is just an option I'd like to keep open.

 

[Carnivroar]

Is this schedule too heavy for next semester?

Calculus 2
Calculus 2 lab
Programming 2
Itroductory physics 1
Elementary Discrete Structures & Applications to Computer Science

18 credits

 

[HeLiXe]

I did calc 2 and programming at the same time and there was no problem. I just dropped my Physics w calc I because I did not have enough time to teach myself, but I will take it again in the fall. Never had the fourth class. It looks like you would have to spend a LOT of time studying and doing homework/ writing up labs.