News Should Mexicans Focus on Improving Mexico Instead of Immigrating Illegally?

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The discussion centers on the contentious issue of illegal immigration, with participants expressing strong opinions on the need for stricter border control and the criminalization of illegal immigrants. Some argue that Mexicans should focus on improving conditions in Mexico rather than immigrating illegally to the U.S., while others emphasize the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. There are concerns about the impact of illegal immigrants on American society, including crime and economic strain, alongside arguments that all individuals possess human rights regardless of their immigration status. The conversation also touches on the historical context of immigration and the perceived hypocrisy of descendants of immigrants advocating for stricter immigration laws. Ultimately, the debate reflects deep divisions over immigration policy and national identity.
  • #121
Children who are born in this country are automatically considered to be citizens with all the rights govenment services and welfare assistance available to any citizen. Below is a good example of what has been happening with these anchor babies.

I would love to help these people, but there is no way we can afford to do so.

Cristobal Silverio emigrated illegally from Mexico to Stockton, Calif., in 1997 to work as a fruit picker. He brought with him his wife, Felipa, and three children, 19, 12 and 8 – all illegals. When Felipa gave birth to her fourth child, daughter Flor, the family had what is referred to as an "anchor baby" - an American citizen by birth who provided the entire Silverio clan a ticket to remain in the U.S. permanently.

But Flor was born premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator and cost the San Joaquin Hospital more than $300,000. Meanwhile, oldest daughter Lourdes married an illegal alien gave birth to a daughter, too. Her name is Esmeralda. And Felipa had yet another child, Cristian.

The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding for the family. Flor gets $600 a month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. While the Silverios earned $18,000 last year picking fruit, they picked up another $12,000 for their two "anchor babies."
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/illegal-aliens-babies-diseases.html
 
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  • #122
edward said:
Children who are born in this country are automatically considered to be citizens with all the rights govenment services and welfare assistance available to any citizen. Below is a good example of what has been happening with these anchor babies.

I would love to help these people, but there is no way we can afford to do so.


http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/illegal-aliens-babies-diseases.html
Exactly. Americans think very short term so don't grasp this. These people are willing to sacrifice in the short term with the long term in mind--a better life for the next generation. This is why I say it is the other way around. They are exploiting our system, corporate greed, and compassionate nature.

I understand some of the business owners plan to march too. Hmm...why do I suspect the organizers will confiscate any Mexican flags tomorrow?
 
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  • #123
Some of the voices supporting the illegals, such as Cardinal Mahoney and some Spanish language radio stations, are asking people not to stay away from jobs and businesses.

Do you suppose that threats might not serve their cause, and people are starting to realize this?

Side note: I was confirmed by Mahoney.
 
  • #125
I wonder if the protest will include boycotting hospitals, welfare offices, the use of food stamps, and other public services.
 
  • #126
It seems the purpose of this discussion is not so much to discuss the issues around illegal immigration as to indulge in racist rants. :rolleyes:
 
  • #127
There is nothing racist here. This is about ILLEGAL immigrants. But the proponents want very badly to confuse the issue.

And just for the record, if you want to talk about racist, try living with the illegals.
 
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  • #128
Ivan Seeking said:
There is nothing racist here. This is about ILLEGAL immigrants. But the proponents want very badly to confuse the issue.

And just for the record, if you want to talk about racist, try living with the illegals.
Stereotyping an ethnic group is the very definition of racism.

I do not dispute that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be tackled. I even made some suggestions myself earlier in this thread. IMHO the thread would gain more from suggestions on how to deal with the issue rather than by focussing on the perceived shortcomings of the illegals.
 
  • #129
Art said:
Stereotyping an ethnic group is the very definition of racism.

I do not dispute that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be tackled. I even made some suggestions myself earlier in this thread. IMHO the thread would gain more from suggestions on how to deal with the issue rather than by focussing on the perceived shortcomings of the illegals.

Is illegal immigrant an ethnic group? Have I once objected to legal Mexican immigrants?

I think the solution is to defend our borders. It's really very simply. You fine each employer a minimum of 30,000 per undocumented worker. But this business of what a great contribution they are making is bogus. There are liabilities that far outweigh the benefits of exploiting the illegals as a means to lower the standard of living here for the working class.
 
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  • #130
Flood of Immigrant Workers Actually Depress Wages

If more immigrant workers were to come to the United States lawfully per a system that has worked for over 150 years - wages would in turn, be higher - via a lesser supply of unskilled labor.

For the legal immigant workers who chose to rally with their so-called "Mexican brothers" today, you've just "shot yourself in the foot!"

In fact, you've relegated your own arduous and lawful process to a "wasted effort." By supporting today's march, you are supporting the very economics that depress your own wages - oversupply of labor.

Why wait in lines any more? Why do things lawfully? Kind of makes a "mockery" of higher moral and ethical standards? And to think - this lawless movement has the FULL support of the Catholic church. I guess this let's the rest of us know where the Church stands on integrity!
 
  • #131
Here we go.

..."Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household," said Steven A. Camarota, author of the study.

The costs outlined in the report include government services such as Medicaid, medical treatment for the uninsured, food assistance programs, the federal prison and court systems, and federal aid to schools...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html

Of course the study has its critics, but this also ignores losses at the State, local, and private level, as well as the money that leaves the U.S. economy and goes back to Mexico.

For me the the problem is what to do with the people already here. Obviously we can't start rounding up families by the millions, so some kind of guest status must be implemented. However, first and foremost, anyone who arrived here illegally should never be given a vote. And I do think their rights should be limited in other ways. For example, a violent crime or felony results in instant deportation, after time served. Perhaps the specific stipulation that once illegal, one can never be a legal citizen, is a good way to go.

As things stand, the illegals make it nearly impossible for law abiding Mexicans to immigrate legally. And if for no other reason than the "war on terror", does anyone remember that[?], we must secure the borders.
 
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  • #132
Art said:
Stereotyping an ethnic group is the very definition of racism.

I do not dispute that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be tackled. I even made some suggestions myself earlier in this thread. IMHO the thread would gain more from suggestions on how to deal with the issue rather than by focussing on the perceived shortcomings of the illegals.
I can see how it would look this way, especially to those who do not live in the U.S., though time and again I have advocated a fair system that is open to all nationalities (meaning those of you who live overseas who may want to immigrate as well).

I have mentioned my friend's husband who is here legally from the Dominican, so it is not racist (i.e. against Latinos). I will say this again, it is about Mexicans in particular because of the outrageous percentages that this particular nationality represents in regard to illegals. Furthermore, I have lived in the Southwest all my life among Hispanics (dated a Mexican guy through most of High School). The new attitudes, encouraged by Mexico/Vicente Fox, and out-of-control numbers have turned the problem into a PROBLEM.

I have offered many ideas and solutions. Perhaps you have missed these? Or perhaps you don't like any of these because none of them are in favor of a free-for-all amnesty/open border policy?

EDIT: This just in -

In the news today:

1 million march for immigrants across U.S.
Nationwide boycotts, protests meant to underscore rising economic clout NBC News and news services
Updated: 10:56 p.m. ET May 1, 2006

LOS ANGELES - More than 1 million mostly Hispanic immigrants and their supporters skipped work and took to the streets Monday, flexing their economic muscle in a nationwide boycott that succeeded in slowing or shutting many farms, factories, markets and restaurants."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12573992/

Hmm...So we don't want to be dependent of foreign oil for our energy needs, or a Dubai-based company to operate our ports, so why would we want to be dependent of foreign, and in particular illegal labor in our economy?

Yes, I think these protests have sent a message loud and clear. Mexico or any other nation cannot be allowed to dictate to the U.S. what our domestic policies and laws should be. Ask your representatives to stand up for the legal citizens and OUR nation and get this problem under control now.
 
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  • #133
I also see this as being about Mexicans in particular because illegal immigration is the menthod the Mexican government is using to solve their own social problems. Lately however Central and South American illegals have joined the parade to cross the border.

It would be wonderful if we could allow all who wish to come here to enter freely. We simply can not afford to solve the social problems of other countries.

The Bush administration has knowingly allowed the masses of illegals to cross the border despite the 911 security issue. I would imagine this was allowed to happen only because the cheap labor of the illegals has helped big businesses. Hint: The three largest meat packing plants in the nation were closed today.

But the cost of providing social services, especially medical care is
overwhelming to many cities and states. Good God we already have Millions of Americans without health insurance.
 
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  • #134
edward said:
I also see this as being about Mexicans in particular because illegal immigration is the menthod the Mexican government is using to solve their own social problems. Lately however Central and South American illegals have joined the parade to cross the border.

It would be wonderful if we could allow all who wish to come here to enter freely. We simply can not afford to solve the social problems of other countries.

The Bush administration has knowingly allowed the masses of illegals to cross the border despite the 911 security issue. I would imagine this was allowed to happen only because the cheap labor of the illegals has helped big businesses. Hint: The three largest meat packing plants in the nation were closed today.

But the cost of providing social services, especially medical care is
overwhelming to many cities and states. Good God we already have Millions of Americans without health insurance.
As Lou Dobbs stated this evening, it is a shame that these people are not demonstrating on the streets of Mexico for social reforms in their own country. Look at other places like Sudan, which should have MUCH more focus. There are so many more desperate situations in the world, why should the U.S. citizens provide a safety valve for the likes of Vicente Fox, and at what point will the valve burst?

I've finally gotten a chance to watch the news. There were still about 50% Mexican flags being waved (and of Che Guevara!) chanting (Mexico!) and singing in Spanish, very happy and festive with Mexican music etc. :confused: And worst of all signs demanding amnesty, and when several protestors were interviewed (none from a country other than Mexico), that was the message. They are demanding amnesty--not earning citizenship, not guest worker programs, but blanket amnesty for all. It's insane. I'm disgusted.
 
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  • #135
I think this exchange on The News Hours provides a nice sense of the tone of this issue. For the most part I agree with Ms. Sanchez; esp here.

This is something where people do not have rights to come into this country illegally and then have a right to have certain, you know, expectations for entitlement.

That is the part that is really hard for many in our country to stomach. And I think the more that they do this in your face, "We are entitled to something," versus saying, "You know what? We want to come out of the shadows. We want to be a legitimate part of the American society. There needs to be a way to trade labor the way we trade goods and services with Mexico, Latin America, and the rest of the world." [continued]
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/latin_america/jan-june06/immigration_5-01.html

Audio available on page.
 
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  • #136
Ivan Seeking said:
I think this exchange on The News Hours provides a nice sense of the tone of this issue. For the most part I agree with Ms. Sanchez; esp here.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/latin_america/jan-june06/immigration_5-01.html

Audio available on page.
Previously I've pointed out the difference between human rights and civil rights. So aside from the propagandistic terms being used, such as "civil rights" demonstration, "immigrant" day, etc. you may note our not-so-objective media has been using these terms along with Senior Juan Jose Gutierrez in the PBS link you provided. I went through the text and he only uses the term immigrant--never the word illegal. Someone should tell him immigrants don't need to protest because they became citizens legally. I agree Illegal "Alien" is weird, so I just refer to them as Illegals, but they are not immigrants.

Here is a quote of his that baffles me: "What the people did today is that they took an American position for their constitutional and civil rights in this great nation." How is it that they have constitutional or civil rights of our country if they are not American citizens? And I don't know what polls he has been looking at, but for example, more than half of Americans do not favor a guest worker program, because we all ready have one (the H visas) and we know these people never go back home once they get in.

Getting back to the entitlement attitude, one girl said our laws are out-of-date, therefore it is justified to break these laws. Yes, let's look as the laws, such as automatic citizenship for those born in the U.S.--this needs to be removed. Also, use of fraudulent documents/ID needs to be a felony. Many say illegals should have the right to a job and citizenship because they work hard. Bill Richards is just as lame saying they should become citizens based on good behavior (what a con artist he is). Um...what kind of criteria are these? As for making citizenship easier (for who?), why would we want to make it easier to import poverty? Legitimate qualifications cannot be tossed aside as some kind of inconvenience.

I agree with Ivan that the biggest problem is what to do with the 15 million plus who are already in the U.S. illegally. All criteria, whether that of good behavior, or how many years someone has been here would require screening. Is this realistic? Yet these same people argue that we can't deport any of these people because we don't have the resources to round up and process them. Hmm...very contradictory indeed.

If we enforced existing laws, I assure you these people would go home and take their "anchor" children (minors) with them of their own choosing. Further, I assure you companies like Tyson would get busy hiring Americans to work in their plants, and would lose only a small percent in profit in the process. And the magnet of jobs and benefits that is attracting these people would be removed. We still need to secure the border though. One of the criminal activities is that of trafficking women and children for sexual purposes :bugeye: often kidnapped or sold by families.

In the meantime there also were a lot of demonstrations in Mexico today in favor of illegals being granted amnesty in the U.S. I find it odd that they protest against U.S. laws, but not against their own crappy government. I suspect it has to do with what the Mexican government "allows."
 
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  • #137
It seems to me that we have to make the population already here legitimate - not citizens, but they should come out of the shadows. I do think we should enforce strict laws and applies severe penalties to the employers and such, and we do need to stop the hemorrhaging of the border, but we don't want to take a population that is 40% employed and throw them all out of work. This would only help to create more poverty and put larger burden on an already failing safety net. And I'm sure that many would stay here in any event since they know that their children will still get a free education, medical care, etc.

There was some real irony in the demo yesterday. First of all, many of the businesses affected in the LA area were Latino owned. Also, they boycotted schools, which means that in Los Angeles, some 28 millions dollars will not be paid to the school district from the State. So really it wasn't a matter of money lost, rather, it just doesn't get moved. It was also reported that some schools had attendance as low as 30%, so the illegals were boycotting and trying to harm an institution that does nothing but provide a free education for their children. Real smart. Also, the incredibly low attendance in some schools is a strong indicator of the burden placed on the system by the illegals. We hadn't mentioned anything about how the burden of the illegal population has brought public education to its knees, in many cities.
 
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  • #138
My commute was a breeze yesterday in L.A. Let's have a protest every Monday.
 
  • #139
I won't be buying anything made by Tyson Foods anymore.
 
  • #140
The American Government Must Stay the Couse

The legislators in states around the nation, and in Washington D.C., should NOT be intimidated be the immigration rallies of Monday and previous weeks. Those "demanding" amnesty and free borders for immigrants wishing to come to the U.S. from Mexico and Central America have "no legal standing" upon which to make their claims. It is equivalent to criminals in prison causing an uprising and demanding release.

I am NOT racist. I have many friends and play percussion with people from Mexico and Central America. I would oppose a giant home builder, a Walmart type firm, a socially irresponsible oil company, or any "organization" who would perpetrate a couse of abusing influence, skirting state, federal, and local laws - en route to "compromising" the safety and well being of any community.

Within a few years of former President Reagan's 1980's amnesty deal for then illegal immigrants in the U.S., the movement of new illegal immigrants into Southern California was so telling - that the school system my wife attended in the 1960s and 70s, was "over-run" by Mexican illegal immigrant children in a mere 5-7 year period in the early 1990s, who didn't even live in the community where these schools reside. By 4th grade, my son's classes were over-crowded and pulled down by children unable to speak English. You can't imagine the enormity of this. It was as if they were refugees from a war the U.S. had agreed to take in! No home builder, company, or organization would ever be permitted to cause such an unfinanced and unmanaged burden upon localities.

U.S. labor jobs are being outsourced to cheaper labor countries overseas. The U.S. should not be intimated by those who continue to exploit border, race, or any other issue in America for their own devices.

I say: "Stay the Course."
 
  • #141
Ivan Seeking said:
It seems to me that we have to make the population already here legitimate - not citizens, but they should come out of the shadows. I do think we should enforce strict laws and applies severe penalties to the employers and such, and we do need to stop the hemorrhaging of the border, but we don't want to take a population that is 40% employed and throw them all out of work. This would only help to create more poverty and put larger burden on an already failing safety net. And I'm sure that many would stay here in any event since they know that their children will still get a free education, medical care, etc.
You realize if we enforce strict laws (hiring laws?) with severe penalties to employers, the 40% employed would all be out of work. I agree it would not be reasonable to deport all illegals overnight even if we could. We need to start processing these people, and it will take some time. During that time what is their status? If a "guest worker" status is used solely for this purpose and with the understanding it is temporary (just during the processing period), I would support it. However, the qualifications for citizenship must be legitimate (per existing qualifications), and not arbitrary such as time in the country or good behavior. Not only would anything other than existing criteria be unfair to people who immigrated legally, but how can you expect illegals who don't meet the cut-off time to come forward? Those with a criminal record aren't going to come forward. On the other hand, if these people can only immigrate per existing qualifications, it is projected it will take 11 years to gain citizenship. Are you willing to allow these people to remain here for 11 years or more as "guest workers", or should they return home while they wait? Come on, this is why illegals are against anything other than blanket amnesty.

I want legislation that secures the border ASAP (and personally I think we must also build a wall, which would be a one-time cost compared to ongoing costs for manpower, detention facilities, etc.), and legislation that enforces existing laws, most notably employment laws. There can be no amnesty, and even compromises or exceptions to rules will be a big welcome sign and we will have another 15 million illegals here in only a few years time. That's the unfortunate reality that we've seen before. And if we need to use the military, than we must do it.

Math Is Hard said:
My commute was a breeze yesterday in L.A. Let's have a protest every Monday.
I also was thinking how nice it must have been for American kids in school--not overcrowded, great student/teacher ratio, and all English instruction. Well they are planning more protests for May 19th, so enjoy!

Ivan Seeking said:
I won't be buying anything made by Tyson Foods anymore.
Same here. Wal-Mart I've always boycotted, and I'm adding Home Depot.
 
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  • #142
SOS2008 said:
You realize if we enforce strict laws (hiring laws?) with severe penalties to employers, the 40% employed would all be out of work.

I wondered if that would cause confusion. I see something like a grace period to allow illegals to register for a documentation process, and after that the laws would be strictly enforced.

Of course I have heard this song sung before...

Same here. Wal-Mart I've always boycotted,
I would but they've run all of the competition in town out of business.
 
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  • #143
Most of the companies hiring illegal immigrants skirt the law, and mislead the public, by hiring sub-contractors to provide their labor force. Construction companies here are using nearly 100% subcontracted labor.

The ironic part is that many of the sub-contractors are themselves illegal immigrants who have learned how to manipulate the system.

It amazes me that the Bush administration has allowed this trend, and the flow of illegals to continue. The border in AZ is still like a sieve. I wonder somewhat tongue in cheek about what would have happened if 15 million Canadians had slipped into this country in the same time frame?
 
  • #144
Ivan Seeking said:
I wondered if that would cause confusion. I see something like a grace period to allow illegals to register for a documentation process, and after that the laws would be strictly enforced.

Of course I have heard this song sung before...

I got your point and I think your use of the term "make them legitimate" is an excellent idea.

At this point many of the illegals currently have the illusion that they are legitimate when they buy a fake drivers license. We need to give them some REAL legal hoops to jump through to earn that ligitimacy.
 
  • #145
edward said:
I got your point and I think your use of the term "make them legitimate" is an excellent idea.

At this point many of the illegals currently have the illusion that they are legitimate when they buy a fake drivers license. We need to give them some REAL legal hoops to jump through to earn that ligitimacy.
That's the key issue - what will be required to earn citizenship legitimately.

Let's begin with existing quotas. Should Mexican nationals be given more opportunity than other nationalities? And if so, within that category of Mexican immigrants, should those who are already here (illegals) be given precedence over those who are still in Mexico who want to immigrate? In other words, should illegals be placed at the front of the line?

Then let's consider citizenship requirements. IMO the PROCESS for becoming a citizen needs to be improved from a bureaucratic perspective. There are not enough resources, and plenty of frustrating incompetence.

But if we relax the CRITERIA for citizenship in any way, I feel it should based on solid data of what OUR country needs. And before we determine what our country needs, we should make sure legal citizens are being given opportunities first. For example, it is becoming apparent that we are not preparing new generations for trade work, such as electricians, mechanics, etc. Part of it is the stigma that has been placed on these kinds of jobs (and in large part the stigma is that of low pay, which is due to employment of illegals). However studies are showing that increasing percentages of upcoming generations will not continue education beyond high school, so they will need these kind of jobs. We are already seeing this as parents support their kids later and later in life (currently the average age of 28). And these kinds of jobs cannot be exported except by giving them to foreigners inside the country.

My guess is we will need more immigrant labor in the medical field (huge shortage of nurses will increase), and possibly other high-end fields such as science, technology, and engineering. The unfortunate reality is illegals from Mexico are not going to fill these niches unless filled by future generations after being educated in our schools and universities with tax payer subsidies. In which case, I must ask why we aren't reserving these resources to prepare our own children?

When these idiotic politicians talk about a comprehensive solution, they say nothing about these issues I'm addressing. We need a multi-pronged approach that deals with the root of these problems, not only in our nation but in Mexico as well.

In the meantime, we need to secure our border by sealing it off as best as we can as soon as we can. And then, IMO, forget about finagling a way to accommodate the illegals already here. Sorry, but there simply is no solution that will be acceptable to both them or legal citizens.

Instead let's focus on our laws. First amend the constitution so that birth is automatic citizenship only to parents who are legal citizens. Then in addition to existing hiring laws, require employers to check documents. It is easy--there is already a database online by which they can do this at no cost other than a few minutes of their time. Very simply, it isn't a law, so they don't do it. Then if they find documents are fraudulent (though use of fake ID would end immediately if this is known), they also should be required to report it. The current laws regarding fake ID are as follows:

Fake ID Facts

False identification is used for many types of fraudulent activities, including illegal purchase of alcohol and cigarettes, check fraud, bank fraud, social security fraud and immigration fraud. Advanced computer graphics technology and color copiers have made it easier to produce fake IDs and harder for law enforcers or retailers to detect them.

The following summaries explain the law regarding the use, possession and production of falsified identification documents and the penalties for such actions.

COV 18.2-204.1. Fraudulent use of birth certificates, driver's licenses, etc.

* It is illegal to use another's identification as one's own.
* It is illegal to possesses or sell an ID for the purpose of establishing a false identification.
* Persons who possess, use or distribute fake IDs are charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor. If the document is used to purchase a firearm, the charges increase to a Class 6 felony.

COV 18.2-204.2. Facsimile or manufacture, sale, etc., or possession of fictitious, simulated official license or identification.

* It is illegal to possess, produce or distribute a falsified document that can be mistaken as an official government document.
* Violators face Class 1 misdemeanor charges for the sale or production of such ID and Class 2 misdemeanor charges for possession of such ID.
http://www.abc.state.va.us/facts/fakeid.html

These laws need to be tougher--it should be a felony, especially for those who manufacture and distribute fraudulent documents. As for illegal entry, those who enter more than once should not only be charged a fine to help pay for the cost to deport them repeatedly, but it should be at least a misdemeanor on the second try. Then law enforcement can assist if they enter again.

I guarantee you these measures would stop the flood immediately. And as cruel as some would like to make is sound, the illegals already here would return home on their own (natural attrition). No, they will not starve. During the time it will take to get these laws on the books (with a date of enforcement announced in advance), many illegals would sell their homes and/or businesses, and invest in their own county with the money they otherwise would not have. Those who have been educated in our schools can take their knowledge to their own country to be put to use there, that they otherwise would not have. Soon Mexico would be a better place, and so will the future of our own citizens in the U.S.
 
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  • #146
A lot of the drivers licenses were sold to illegals by employees of the DMV, and not just here in AZ.
 
  • #147
edward said:
A lot of the drivers licenses were sold to illegals by employees of the DMV, and not just here in AZ.
The database I mentioned is to check Social Security numbers, and no one can be hired legally without a Social Security number. However, if so inclined (or should I say brave) an illegal could register to vote with a driver's license, so that's not a good thing either.

edward, did you see this on the news?

Every day around the clock illegal immigrants make a run for the border. Most who are caught will be deported and will likely try again of course. But those who are caught in Arizona may not be so lucky. They have to deal with a rebel sheriff and his posse of thousands. CNN's Peter Viles has more on that controversial policy and patrols in a story that first aired on CNN'S "Lou Dobbs Tonight."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A perk walk you won't see anywhere else, illegal aliens arrested for allegedly agreeing to be smuggled into America and making the mistake of passing through Maricopa County, Arizona.

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I'm trying get a message out to all the illegals from Mexico to stay out of this county.

VILES: Maverick sheriff Joe Arpaio believes Arizona's new anti- smuggling law applies not just to coyotes, but to the illegal aliens they transport.

ARPAIO: It's interpreted by the county attorney that those that are in conspiracy with the smuggler can also be locked up. I'm the only law enforcement agency doing it.

VILES: And doing it his way using some of his vast posse of 3,000 volunteers to patrol the desert. This volunteer helped round up nine illegals and two alleged smugglers Tuesday morning.

ANDREW RAMSAMMY, VOLUNTEER DEPUTY: When you get a phone call at 4:00 in the morning from the sheriff, you respond.

VILES: Arpaio's deputies have jailed 120 illegals this year and this sheriff does not believe in catch and release.

ARPAIO: It's a felony, 1 1/2 years to 3 years in prison if convicted. So it's not a misdemeanor. I could very easily turn these people over to immigration, they get a free ride back to Mexico. Right now they're getting a free ride to the jail.

VILES: Jail space is not a problem. Arpaio is the sheriff who built a tent city of jail cells.

RUSSELL PEARCE, (R) ARIZONA STATE HOUSE: The message has to be loud and clear. We're not taking it any more. You enter this country illegally, you're going to be arrested, you're going to be deported.

VILES: It's likely though the county will face a legal challenge in its use of the new law. At the state level, it is being used only to target the smuggler. The sheriff bristled at the suggestion his posse is somehow similar to "The Minutemen" saying his volunteer posse undergoes extensive professional training and is sworn in under the Arizona state constitution. Peter Viles for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/04/acd.01.html

I say good for Arpaio. And I feel he has a solid legal case. True, the illegals are the "contraband" but unlike drugs, they are "consenting adults" so unless they are kidnapped, they are accomplices to the smugglers (coyotes). In the past, I have also had email correspondence with Representative Pearce, who has been advocating English as the national language for a long time now. (Just as a side note, his son was a Deputy who was shot by an illegal alien.)

And then this:

A Los Angeles attorney brought into the case last week by the Mexican Consul General's Office in Phoenix plans to file another motion claiming Maricopa County Attorney officials are violating state and federal law because it's the federal government's job to control illegal immigration.

Both motions are to be argued in county court on May 23.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3841709.html

The Mexican Consul General's Office? And of course they would like the federal government to be responsible because the federal government does nothing but look the other way.

In the meantime, I keep seeing bleeding-heart BS from the likes of Patti Davis (Reagan's daughter). In her article "Rude America" by Patti Davis wrote:

"Yet on May 1, thousands of immigrants across the country marched and waved flags and professed their love for America. Doesn’t anyone see the irony in this? These are people who not only put up with the same climate of rudeness the rest of us do, but they’re paid poorly, they will never get their Social Security benefits (if they’re here illegally) and now there is a move to send them all away. Yet they sincerely love this country. They’re willing to see past our obvious shortcomings and work hard to live here."

With all the Mexican flags being waved, and chants of "Mexico!" in Spanish, how does Patti come to the conclusion that these law-breaking illegals have loyalty to America? And I guess she didn't see footage of them throwing rocks and bottles at police officers as it began to get dark. If Americans are rude, it's probably because they are paid poorly, thanks to depressed wages due to illegals in our country. As for Social Security benefits, can any of us count on receiving these benefits, especially since far more of our tax dollars must be spent on other benefits illegals enjoy in increasing numbers? First, Patti and many other pro-amnesty people need to understand that these illegals are here because of corporate greed, and not by invitation of tax-paying citizens. The American people therefore don't owe illegals anything.

A recent study comparing immigration/illegal entry laws of six nations (Sweden, Egypt, etc., and including Mexico) concluded that all have stiffer laws than the U.S. has. The more I learn, the more my position hardens. I say:

1) Secure our border by sealing it off as best as we can as soon as we can. I feel this must include building a wall.

In the meantime, and going forward, those who cross the border illegally once should be charged a fine and deported immediately. A warrant for their arrest should be issued for failure to pay the fine. On a second attempt to cross the border they should be charged with a misdemeanor. In these ways local law enforcement can assist in apprehending them if they continue to enter illegally. Right now it is only a "civil offense."

2) Amend the constitution so that birth is automatic citizenship only to children of legal parents. This also is the norm in other countries.

3) Require employers to check Social Security numbers. There is already a database online by which they can do this. Then if they find documents are fraudulent, they also should be required to report it to the INS.

4) It should be a felony to use fake ID, and especially to manufacture and distribute fraudulent documents.

5) English needs to be made our national language, and anything provided by our government in any other language must be ended. Making government services available in Spanish is discriminatory to other nationalities, contrary to assimilation and advancement, and contributes to delusions of entitlement by illegals.

I know some feel it is best to focus on one thing at a time, beginning with securing the border. But I feel all these things should be in the debate now, or we may never progress to the rest of these items later.

In the meantime, believe it or not, environmentalists are against amnesty for illegals. They say the resulting population explosion in the U.S. would be very detrimental. That's right, the tree huggers want to measure and control immigration -- they are against a free-for-all.

Keep up the phone calls, letters, and emails to your congressional representatives! It makes a difference.
 
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  • #148
SOS2008

Yes I saw the news about Sheriff "Joe" in Maricopa county. Actually he doesn't have enough room, even in his tent city, to house all of those who may be caught.

From another aspect, the Border Patrol has reported that the number of apprehensions that they announce may be quite misleading. This is because those who are caught are returned to border towns and the illegals simply try agian the next day, and the next. Eventually they make it. Getting caught is no big deal to them. They get free meals, medical care, a safe place to sleep and the next day a free ride back down to the border.

The border has been a revolving door that has cost us millions of dollars. And at the same time our nation has supposedly been under a high state of security, millions of people have crossed into this country and simply disappeared into an underground economy.:rolleyes:
 
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  • #149
These are people who not only put up with the same climate of rudeness the rest of us do, but they’re paid poorly, they will never get their Social Security benefits (if they’re here illegally) and now there is a move to send them all away. Yet they sincerely love this country. They’re willing to see past our obvious shortcomings and work hard to live here."

Oh please, get a grip Patti. They are here because Mexico and Cen Am are dirt poor and riddled with corruption.
 
  • #150
Ivan Seeking said:
Oh please, get a grip Patti. They are here because Mexico and Cen Am are dirt poor and riddled with corruption.
And the other 280 million american immigrants and their descendants are there because?
 

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