News Should the United Nations Have More Authority to Regulate Nuclear Arms?

[evthis]

Does America have the right to demand that countries presently lacking in nuclear arms do not take measures to become nuclear arms equipped?

 

[spender]

Who ****ing Cares About What Bunch Of Psychopaths Think?

 

[PerennialII]

Does America have the right to demand that countries presently lacking in nuclear arms do not take measures to become nuclear arms equipped?

Nope. Doesn't mean that I cherish the idea of giving nukes to terrorists etc., but rather that lost some of the naivety towards the actions and policies of the US.

 

[loseyourname]

It depends on the country. If we're talking countries like Iran and North Korea, that have attempted in the past to conquer their neighbors, then I'd say their neighbors certainly have the right to demand that they not acquire nuclear weapons. Since these neighbors can't do a damn thing about it themselves, the US feels that it should, since it has some interest in these matters as well. Any nation has the right to demand that its best interest be taken care of. By the same token, Iran and North Korea have the right to demand nuclear weapons; they'll be a lot more powerful with them than without them.

 

[spender]

nobody respects usa, other nations are only afraid of some stupid reaction of white house.that is why everyone suddenly is developing nukes=self defense against idiots.usa/israel deserves to be wiped out from the face of this planet.

 

[evthis]

nobody respects usa, other nations are only afraid of some stupid reaction of white house.that is why everyone suddenly is developing nukes=self defense against idiots.usa/israel deserves to be wiped out from the face of this planet.

why does usa/israel deserve to be wiped out ?

 

[russ_watters]

Does America have the right to demand that countries presently lacking in nuclear arms do not take measures to become nuclear arms equipped?

Yes, if the country in question has signed the NPT and maybe if the country (as said above) has demonstrated that it can't be trusted.

 

[Evo]

idiots.usa/israel deserves to be wiped out from the face of this planet.

Let's refrain from derogatory remarks of this nature. Let's not bring the discussion down to such a low level.

 

[Informal Logic]

Aside from who should have arms and who should determine who should have arms (ie "threatening" is in the eyes of the beholder, and those making the determination may be bullies themselves), all the regulation, treaties, etc. cannot change that, as they say, the cat's out of the bag.

 

[misskitty]

Does America have the right to demand that countries presently lacking in nuclear arms do not take measures to become nuclear arms equipped?

I agree with Russ. I also think, to avoid hypocracy, everyone should take measures to unarm themselves of nuclear weapons. If everyone is so afraid of everyone one that has nuclear weapons; why not then take steps so no one has them?

 

[Lyuokdea]

Yes, because Iran, North Korea, and others signed the NPT, they currently have an obligation to not acquire Nuclear Weapons. However, under Article VI we currently have a right to disarm, we're not doing that, neither is anybody really. I think other countries do have some legitimate grounds to call the treaty void, or at least hold the P5 in violation, however, as that hasn't happened and they are signatories we do have the right to demand that they not acqire Nuclear Weapons.

~Lyuokdea

 

[misskitty]

Well, it does make sense. Could someone refresh my memory as to what NPT stands for?

 

[dextercioby]

NonProliferation (of nuclear weapons) Treaty...

Daniel.

 

[misskitty]

Ah Ha! Thank you Daniel... I think we were talking about that last week. It would probably be best if no one had this kind of munnition...the problem is how do you get everyone to relinquish their arsenal?

 

[dextercioby]

I frankly doubt there's a way.Even though you destroy the ogives,but you still get to keep the "intelligence" and the capabilities.They're here to stay,just like CO_{2} and the greenhouse effect...

Daniel.

 

[misskitty]

Unfortunately that is true.

 

[franznietzsche]

Does America have the right to demand that countries presently lacking in nuclear arms do not take measures to become nuclear arms equipped?

If those countries signed the NUclear Nonproliferation Treaty, then yes.

When will people like you and spender actually bother to learn history?

 

[franznietzsche]

Yes, because Iran, North Korea, and others signed the NPT, they currently have an obligation to not acquire Nuclear Weapons. However, under Article VI we currently have a right to disarm, we're not doing that, neither is anybody really. I think other countries do have some legitimate grounds to call the treaty void, or at least hold the P5 in violation, however, as that hasn't happened and they are signatories we do have the right to demand that they not acqire Nuclear Weapons.

~Lyuokdea

QFE

for you morons that don't know your history or international treaties, and insist on bashing us for acting fully within our rights under international treaties.

 

[spender]

How many treaties USA took for granted ? many, and what ?
But you want to invade Iran for just building one civilian reactor ?
How about Israel and their stockpile of nukes ? of course they need them to defend themselfs against evil arabs.
USA should start demanding first that Israel stops building nukes and only then talk to Iran or N.Korea.

 

[dextercioby]

They can't do that,because they're offering "intelligence" and making good money outta it...

Daniel.

 

[misskitty]

Money makes the world go round guys.

 

[dextercioby]

I see that as a good point.Where's no feeling,there's always room for money.

Daniel.

 

[misskitty]

Money is the ultimate motivator. If a country can get a tactical as well as an economic advantage through the production of a nuclear arsenal, they will not be will to relinquish it as quickly as one might want. When interrogated about it, they will try to make every excuse they can to keep their arsenal. Including claiming self defense. It is difficult to believe self defense is the only reason for te development of such munnitions, especially if they haven't been directly threatend by another country. Instead just saying they feel threatend by their neighbors is enough explanation.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I don't think money is the driving reason to have them. As you suggest, fear seems to be it. A nation that feels threatened has reason to spend a lot of its resources developing atomic capability. That was what drove India and Pakistan (mutually). North Korea certainly seems to think we are going to invade it, and Iran is surely feeling surrounded with US troops in Iraq on its west border as well as Afghanistan on its east border.

 

[misskitty]

I can agree with that. Money does play a factor in it though. Fear is proabably about 75% of it. The rest is a toss between money and the desire to be an "established world power". Korea cited the desire to be considered a world power and not a developing country as one of the reasons why they wanted to develop an arsenal. The rest was theat from their neighbors.

 

[misskitty]

I was going to ask how relations were between India and Pakistan as of late. I haven't heard very much about what's going on over there.

 

[evthis]

If those countries signed the NUclear Nonproliferation Treaty, then yes.

When will people like you and spender actually bother to learn history?

Why would signing a treaty like the NPT give America a "right" to tell other countries that it is right for America to be with nuclear weapons but it is wrong for other countries to have them or develop them?

 

[loseyourname]

Why would signing a treaty like the NPT give America a "right" to tell other countries that it is right for America to be with nuclear weapons but it is wrong for other countries to have them or develop them?

By signing the treaty, they agreed that they would not develop a nuclear weapons program. This gives any signatory the right to object when another signatory violates the treaty.

 

[evthis]

By signing the treaty, they agreed that they would not develop a nuclear weapons program. This gives any signatory the right to object when another signatory violates the treaty.

But what about countries that already have nuclear weapons that sign the NPT? How is it that they have a right to tell other countries "its ok for us to have them but not for you?"

 

[loseyourname]

But what about countries that already have nuclear weapons that sign the NPT? How is it that they have a right to tell other countries "its ok for us to have them but not for you?"

The other countries agreed to it. If they didn't want to, they didn't have to sign.

 

[evthis]

The other countries agreed to it. If they didn't want to, they didn't have to sign.

So does America have a right to tell a country that didn't sign "you cannot build nuclear weapons"?

 

[russ_watters]

So does America have a right to tell a country that didn't sign "you cannot build nuclear weapons"?

Sometimes, yes. Like I said before, there are a number of countries who have shown they can't be trusted with nukes and the rest of the world absolutely has the right to tell them they can't have them. However, that's kinda a hypothetical: the only important nonsignatories are India, Israel, and Pakistan (and N. Korea has illegally pulled out). None of the three really qualify as rogue nations (though Pakistan has been on the edge before).

 

[evthis]

Sometimes, yes. Like I said before, there are a number of countries who have shown they can't be trusted with nukes and the rest of the world absolutely has the right to tell them they can't have them. However, that's kinda a hypothetical: the only important nonsignatories are India, Israel, and Pakistan (and N. Korea has illegally pulled out). None of the three really qualify as rogue nations (though Pakistan has been on the edge before).

Why are India, Israel and Pakistan considered "important nonsignatories"? Why would any non presently nuclear armed country be motivated to sign the NPT?

 

[spender]

So does America have a right to tell a country that didn't sign "you cannot build nuclear weapons"?

Yeah ! because America is God's chosen nation(or was that Israel?), that is why !
God bless America ! We are # 1 !

 

[SOS2008]

If we're talking countries like Iran and North Korea, that have attempted in the past to conquer their neighbors, then I'd say their neighbors certainly have the right to demand that they not acquire nuclear weapons. Since these neighbors can't do a damn thing about it themselves, the US feels that it should, since it has some interest in these matters as well. Any nation has the right to demand that its best interest be taken care of. By the same token, Iran and North Korea have the right to demand nuclear weapons; they'll be a lot more powerful with them than without them.

I just noticed this post. When has Iran, in modern history (since the Persian Empire) attempted to conquer a neighbor? In the last war with a neighbor, it was Iraq that attacked Iran (and then of course the U.S. pitched in).

 

[SOS2008]

...under Article VI we currently have a right to disarm, we're not doing that, neither is anybody really. I think other countries do have some legitimate grounds to call the treaty void, or at least hold the P5 in violation, however, as that hasn't happened and they are signatories we do have the right to demand that they not acqire Nuclear Weapons.

True indeed about disarming, though as stated by others, once the knowledge, materials, etc. are owned, how can it be contained? And what if a "rogue" country obtains this ability? Why is it assumed these countries will be any less responsible--are they going to use these weapons to go around forcing their political beliefs on other countries? Heaven forbid! I think it is fair to assume they just want to defend themselves (no one has a Department of War anymore, do they?). With regard to terrorism, 9-11 proved terrorists don't need nuclear ("nu-cu-lar") weapons to cause tremendous damage, and in fact fear has been more on the biological side of weaponry, etc. I think this may all be just another pretense for starting another war...

 

[loseyourname]

I just noticed this post. When has Iran, in modern history (since the Persian Empire) attempted to conquer a neighbor? In the last war with a neighbor, it was Iraq that attacked Iran.

That depends on who you ask. The war between the two officially began when Iraq invaded Iran, but they have always maintained that doing so was a defensive measure, in that Iran had been launching missile strikes for a while before that. Personally, I wouldn't want either country possessing nuclear weapons.

 

[russ_watters]

Why are India, Israel and Pakistan considered "important nonsignatories"? Why would any non presently nuclear armed country be motivated to sign the NPT?

Because the three of them have nuclear weapons. There aren't any other nonsignatories with a reasonable chance of acquiring them.

With regard to terrorism, 9-11 proved terrorists don't need nuclear ("nu-cu-lar") weapons to cause tremendous damage, and in fact fear has been more on the biological side of weaponry, etc.

"tremendous damage" is still a pretty relative thing. A nuclear bomb set off between the towers would have killd several orders of magnitude (certainly more than 2, possibly more than 3) more people. Are we really prepared to risk a million deaths?

I think this may all be just another pretense for starting another war...

With whom?

 

[SOS2008]

Because the three of them have nuclear weapons. There aren't any other nonsignatories with a reasonable chance of acquiring them. "tremendous damage" is still a pretty relative thing. A nuclear bomb set off between the towers would have killd several orders of magnitude (certainly more than 2, possibly more than 3) more people. Are we really prepared to risk a million deaths?

Of course not, but I went on to say that biological warfare has been of more concern, and the magnitude of this could be pretty tremendous. As for 9-11, true it does not compare to what a nuclear bomb could do. According to Bin Laden, 9-11 achieved their goal of damaging the economy. Certainly no one would like to see any of these weapons in the hand of terrorists. I don't agree with their philosophy, and certainly no one agrees with their tactics, however it isn't to say they are necessarily insane. Someone would have to be insane to want inhalation of the world.

With whom?

North Korea and/or Iran?

 

[misskitty]

Just because I can ask, what would be the deciding motivator for starting a war with Iran or North Korea? Why would we waste the money? We've already gone to war and succeeded in overthrowing a government and putting ourselves into MASSIVE debt. We have accomplished the mission and now its time to bring our soldiers home. When did Iran or Korea threaten us? Besides, Korea is involved in talks with Japan, China, and South Korea about disarming.

 

[SOS2008]

That depends on who you ask. The war between the two officially began when Iraq invaded Iran, but they have always maintained that doing so was a defensive measure, in that Iran had been launching missile strikes for a while before that. Personally, I wouldn't want either country possessing nuclear weapons.

It's true there has been historical dispute of lands on the border. However, I'm more likely to believe what Iran says than Iraq--I wouldn't believe anything Saddam has said, especially since he was running the country into the ground and was always looking for diversions--He turned around and did the same thing to Kuwait after that.

 

[misskitty]

I can agree with that. Saddam is known for his corrupt and hypocritical policies. I'm with loseyourname, I wouldn't want either country to posess nuclear missles. They might find any excuse thye could to inihilate each other.

 

[evthis]

a lot of people are talking about "rights" that come from treaties and such. However, when I first started this post I was thinking about "rights" in terms of what is right and wrong. There are legal rights (rights granted by treaties and there is right from wrong.

 

[loseyourname]

a lot of people are talking about "rights" that come from treaties and such. However, when I first started this post I was thinking about "rights" in terms of what is right and wrong. There are legal rights (rights granted by treaties and there is right from wrong.

A right granted by a consentual contract is just as moral as a natural right. If a person borrows $70 from you, and signs a contract saying he will pay you $80 in return over the course of the following three weeks, you have every right (including a moral right) to demand that he honor his agreement.

 

[misskitty]

That is a good point. Its a basic pillar in economics for banks and other lenders.

 

[misskitty]

However, we are not discussing economics here. We're discussing when you should/not own nuclear arms or have that kind of capability and who has the right to say so.

The United Nations should has more say on this issue than I think anyone ahs mentioned. If its not the place of the United States to step in and tell a country to disarm, it maybe appropreiate for the United Nations to step in.

If more than one country is in agreement that someone should not have nuclear capability and it is brought to the attention of the U.N. then that country should disarm and do it without arguing. As a precautionary measure to protect others.

 

[loseyourname]

However, we are not discussing economics here. We're discussing when you should/not own nuclear arms or have that kind of capability and who has the right to say so.

The United Nations should has more say on this issue than I think anyone ahs mentioned. If its not the place of the United States to step in and tell a country to disarm, it maybe appropreiate for the United Nations to step in.

If more than one country is in agreement that someone should not have nuclear capability and it is brought to the attention of the U.N. then that country should disarm and do it without arguing. As a precautionary measure to protect others.

The problem with that is the United Nations is largely a figurehead agency. Aside from the aid missions it provides, it serves little tactical purpose. It has no military force of its own to back up its mandates. No request made by the UN has any weight behind it unless it is the weight of a security council nation, and more often than not, that nation is the Unites States. Not to say that the US has been the only nation willing to step in during these situations, but the other nations that have been willing just aren't strong enough to go it alone.

 

[selfAdjoint]

The only weapon the UN has is sanctions. That was the only weapon the League of Nations had too. They failed then and they failed recently; they make the people suffer but the governments of nations can just ignore them and game the system, as happened with the humanitarian exceptions to the sanctions against Iraq.

What the UN should do instead of sanctions is to sic the IMF on bad countries! (see Confessions of an Economic Hit man thread )

 

[misskitty]

The only weapon the UN has is sanctions. That was the only weapon the League of Nations had too. They failed then and they failed recently; they make the people suffer but the governments of nations can just ignore them and game the system, as happened with the humanitarian exceptions to the sanctions against Iraq.

What the UN should do instead of sanctions is to sic the IMF on bad countries! (see Confessions of an Economic Hit man thread )

Ok. I can see that. Now here's another thing. If the United Nations has limited power like the League of Nations did, why, when it as formed, was it not given more power and authority? I don't know if that make sense, but wouldn't it make more sense for the U.N. to have more power so that it could step in with situations about owning nuclear weapons? Especially where everyone is so concerned today with who got 'em and who might get them.