Should you convert all house outlets to GFCI?

[Averagesupernova]

Up until Arc fault protection a house with fuses could install GFCI outlets and have pretty good assurance of being safe. I have not seen Arc Fault outlets. It is in the breaker, so stepping up to Arc Fault protection requires a panel change. I do know most electricians are not fond of Arc Fault breakers. They have a reputation of nuisance tripping and other issues. I have them in my house and have not had any issues.

 

[krater]

There are a few specific loads which one should carefully consider before placing them on a GFCI. Refrigerators/freezers are one of them for obvious reasons. Another might be a sump pump, the potential shock hazard can be weighed against a much greater damage for property damage, health hazard, as well as electric shock due to flooded rooms and appliances should a spurious trip knock out a sump pump. Loss of area lighting in a stairwell for example due to spurious GFCI trip can certainly present a risk of injury that would generally outweigh any potential benefit.

Of course local codes don't necessarily allow one to apply logic to a specific install.

GFCI are a legitimate way of adding protection to outdated wiring that lacks an equipment ground. A GFCI device for example could be installed, and even individually grounded to an exterior rod system in the case of a receptacle, and then set up to protect receptacles on the load side of the device. This can make permissible the installation of grounding type receptacles on circuits lacking an equipment ground provided they are identified as being GFCI protected as well as lacking an equipment grounding connection.

Cost is always something to consider. This aside it would probably bring more benefit than nuisance if modern equipment is used. Do not forget that codes frequently illustrate a bare minimum of installation standards and do not as a matter of course perscribe a maximum level of protection.

 

[trainman2001]

It won't cause any problem have GFICs everywhere other than overkill. They're not cheap. But, unlike a electromechanical circuit breaker which are pretty simple and reasonably failsafe, a GFI is an electronic instrument that has its own failure modes. When the GFI won't reset, or trips repeatedly, the problem is often that the GFI itself has failed. Electromechanical breakers fail less frequently. Sometimes, they do fail after a trip, but not as often as a GFI's. Achem's Razor… simple is better.

 

[Sherwood Botsford]

Just came up at a place where I was doing some trenching work for a shop line:

Owner said that code required AFCI for sub panel. Problem was that almost every motor that had brushes would set of the AFCI. True? Adjustable as to how much arc matters? He had sufficient trouble with it that he was going to leave the AFCI in until the inspection was done, then replace with a regular breaker.

 

[.Scott]

I wouldn't convert "all" house outlets to GFCI. I have run into too many devices that will trip them when they are turned on or off. I had a compact florescent in my bathroom that would flip it pretty regularly. When I asked an electrician what I did wrong - he said that that was just a problem with CF.

Also, some devices with heavy motors will often trip them when they first start up.

So I wouldn't do "all" outlets. I would also not daisy chain the GFCI units or put the GFCI device itself in the breaker box. If you trip one of these things, it will be easier to track it down if you only need to go to the outlet that's being used. The obvious exception being when the outlet is inaccessible.

 

[Guineafowl]

It won't cause any problem have GFICs everywhere other than overkill. They're not cheap. But, unlike a electromechanical circuit breaker which are pretty simple and reasonably failsafe, a GFI is an electronic instrument that has its own failure modes. When the GFI won't reset, or trips repeatedly, the problem is often that the GFI itself has failed. Electromechanical breakers fail less frequently. Sometimes, they do fail after a trip, but not as often as a GFI's. Achem's Razor… simple is better.

Hmm... Occam’s razor is really a principle for assessing the validity of statements. Would you rather your family drove old cars with no ABS, seatbelts, power steering/brakes or crumple zones, and a solid steering column that impales the driver during a head-on collision? He didn’t say, ‘simple is better’. He said that plurality should not be posited without necessity.

I would argue that a GFI is a complication but necessary - standard breakers are there to protect the wiring from overload and fire, but offer no direct protection from electrocution. They also offer protection against Earth faults with too high a loop impedance to trip a breaker, but enough power to start a fire.

My current house’s electrics are protected by an RCD/GFI made and fitted c.1990. It still passes function tests.

Ask yourself: Are your objections to GFIs based on ‘we’ve been alright so far without’? Can you apply the same logic to car seatbelts? An appliance should withstand a high DC voltage between its live conductors and Earth before being certified safe, hence should not trip an RCD. If you get nuisance trips, do you blame the RCD, or the appliance? All my fridges and freezers are on them, and have been since I was in short trousers.

 

[sophiecentaur]

and have been since I was in short trousers.

It's nice and warm here today. I am "in short trousers".

 

[krater]

...unlike a electromechanical circuit breaker which are pretty simple and reasonably failsafe, a GFI is an electronic instrument that has its own failure modes.

I would consider the basic concept of a GFI to be quite simple and straightforward, and its operation to face fewer challenges than an electromechanical circuit breaker of which quite a bit more is demanded in a protective role. Certainly the two technologies have their differences, but what then about GFPE devices? Thinking bigger than the branch circuit level, the advantages of an imbalanced current sensing method can be much more effective at clearing a fault early than relying on thermal or electromagnetic flux effects to trigger the actuation of a protective device. GFPE use is mandated in certain installations.

When the GFI won't reset, or trips repeatedly, the problem is often that the GFI itself has failed. Electromechanical breakers fail less frequently. Sometimes, they do fail after a trip, but not as often as a GFI's.

This is a vast quantity of baloney. By far the most frequent cause of GFI trips is a fault after the device, commonly something like a bad connection in a cord or piece of equipment. This fault might be present due to moisture or damage, which causes the GFI to act as designed. Removing the fault often resolves the problem. GFI devices are made to be regularly tested and this test regimen can include using an exteral device ("plug tester") to simulate an imbalance that exceeds the threshold of the trip unit. It would make no sense to design a device that is prone to fail on trip and then require regular trip testing of the device.

On the other hand a garden variety inverse time circuit breaker can be observed to "weaken," or trip more easily, after repeated overload trips. Sometimes this is a transient condition, where simply waiting for the heat mirage to dissapate from the abused breaker restores normal function. But with repeated events the behavior of a breaker can change, and typically manufacturers recommend factory inspection and re-calibration of a device after it clears a fault that may have been near or at its rated limit, say due to a short or ground fault.

 

[berkeman]

But, unlike a electromechanical circuit breaker which are pretty simple and reasonably failsafe, a GFI is an electronic instrument that has its own failure modes. When the GFI won't reset, or trips repeatedly, the problem is often that the GFI itself has failed. Electromechanical breakers fail less frequently. Sometimes, they do fail after a trip, but not as often as a GFI's.

This is a vast quantity of baloney.

Sounds like some references links about this assertion by @trainman2001 would be helpful...

 

[Nik_2213]

I'm in UK. Although this house has a lot of 'renovated' electrics, there's still enough 'legacy' stuff to need a full re-wire to bring us to 'modern' code.

But, we've done what we could...
Fuse-boards without integral breakers have ground-fault breakers instead of fuse-holders.
Outlets at risk of mishap have integral breakers.
Extension cable reels for garden have 'breaker plugs', 'Test Before Each Use'.
The canopy-sheltered 'weatherproof' box on patio with outlets for party lights, security cameras' IR 'flood-lamp' and LED 'night-light' strip in cats' 'p-porch' has such a 'breaker plug' on the indoor end...
The house-front 'weatherproof' double-outlet for eg Halloween decor has such a 'breaker plug' on the indoor end...

The ring-main that supplies our land-line's DECT phones' base-station and 'Aid-Call' pendant system does get nuisance trips, usually from a spilled kettle. So, those essentials share a modest, wall-hung UPS, to be sure, to be sure...

And, yes, there's also a 'basic' handset daisy-chained from the master phone socket. Remember, if your house and a few neighbours lose power, you'll probably get cell-phone service. If whole street trips out, there'll be much contention at the mast. But the old land-line may be okay...