Show by induction that the determinant is equal to n

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    Determinant Induction
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving by induction that the determinant of a specific class of matrices, denoted as \( A_n \), is equal to \( n! \). The conversation includes exploration of mathematical induction, the application of the Laplace expansion, and the structure of the matrices involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the matrix \( A_n \) and calculates its determinants for small values of \( n \), suggesting that \( \det(A_n) = n! \).
  • Another participant suggests using the Laplace expansion on the matrix to facilitate the induction step.
  • There is a discussion about the specific elements of the matrix and their contributions to the determinant when applying the Laplace expansion.
  • Participants explore the structure of the matrix \( B_n \) and how it relates to \( A_{n+1} \) and \( A_n \).
  • One participant proposes a formula for the determinant of \( A_{n+1} \) based on the determinants of \( A_n \) and \( B_n \).
  • Another participant confirms the application of the Laplace expansion to \( B_n \) and derives a relationship involving \( \det(A_{n-1}) \).
  • Finally, the participants arrive at a conclusion that supports the induction hypothesis, indicating that \( \det(A_{n+1}) = (n+1)! \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of using induction and the Laplace expansion, but there are moments of uncertainty regarding the specifics of the matrix structure and the application of the expansion. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to refine the argument without reaching a definitive consensus on all details.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the structure of the matrices and the validity of the Laplace expansion, which may depend on the specific properties of the matrices involved. There are also indications of confusion regarding the use of strong induction versus regular induction.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

For $n\in \mathbb{N}$ let $A_n$ be the real $n\times n$-matrix with the elements \begin{equation*}a_{ij}=\begin{cases}i , &\text{ if } i=j-1 \\ 1, & \text{ if } i=j \\ -j, & \text{ if } i=j+1 \\ 0 , & \text{ otherwise } \end{cases}\end{equation*}

For $n=1, 2, 3$ we get the matrices :
\begin{equation*}A_1=\begin{pmatrix}1\end{pmatrix} , \ \ A_2=\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 1 \\ -1 & 1\end{pmatrix}, \ \ A_3=\begin{pmatrix}1 & 1 & 0 \\ -1 & 1 & 2 \\ 0 & -2 & 1 \end{pmatrix}\end{equation*}

The determinants are:
\begin{align*}\det (A_1)&=1 \\ \det (A_2)&=\begin{vmatrix} 1 & 1 \\ -1 & 1\end{vmatrix}=1\cdot 1-(-1)\cdot 1=1+1=2 \\ \det (A_3)&=\begin{vmatrix}1 & 1 & 0 \\ -1 & 1 & 2 \\ 0 & -2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}\overset{ \text{ Sarrus } }{ = } \begin{vmatrix}1 & 1 & 0 \\ -1 & 1 & 2 \\ 0 & -2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}\begin{matrix}1 & 1 \\ -1 & 1 \\ 0 & -2\end{matrix} \\ & =1\cdot 1\cdot 1+1\cdot 2\cdot 0+0\cdot (-1)\cdot (-2)-0\cdot 1\cdot 0-(-2)\cdot 2\cdot 1-1\cdot (-1)\cdot 1 \\ & = 1+4+1 =6\end{align*} Now I want to show using induction for $n$ that \begin{equation*}\det (A_n)=n!=n\cdot (n-1)\cdot (n-2)\cdot \ldots \cdot 2\cdot 1\end{equation*}

I have done the following:

Base case: From the above we have that the statement holds for $n=1, 2, 3$, since $\det (A_1)=1=1!$, $\det (A_2)=2=2!$, $\det (A_3)=6=3!$. Induction hypothesis: Let $n\geq 2$. We assume that the statement holds for all $k\leq n$, i.e. that $\det (A_k)=k!$. (IH)

Or do we not use strong induction? (Wondering) Induction step: We want to show that the statement holds then also for $n+1$, i.e. that $\det (A_{n+1})=(n+1)!$.

Could you give me a hint how we could show that? Do we have to expand somehow to use the induction hypothesis? (Wondering)
 
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Hey mathmari! (Wave)

Did you consider the Laplace expansion applied to, say, the bottom most row?
 
I like Serena said:
Did you consider the Laplace expansion applied to, say, the bottom most row?
At that row all elements are equal to $0$ except the last two, which are $-(n-1)$ and $1$ respectively, right? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
At that row all elements are equal to $0$ except the last two, which are $-(n-1)$ and $1$ respectively, right?

For an $(n+1)\times(n+1)$ matrix that should be $-n$ and $1$, shouldn't it? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
For an $(n+1)\times(n+1)$ matrix that should be $-n$ and $1$, shouldn't it? (Wondering)

Oh yes, I thought of a $n\times n$-matrix (Blush) But how can we know the formula for the expansion having a general matrix? I got stuck right now. (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
But how can we know the formula for the expansion having a general matrix? I got stuck right now.

Isn't the expansion:
$$\det A_{n+1} = 1\cdot \det A_n - (-n)\cdot \det B_n$$
where $B_n$ is $A_{n+1}$ with column $n$ and the bottom row removed? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Isn't the expansion:
$$\det A_{n+1} = 1\cdot \det A_n - (-n)\cdot \det B_n$$
where $B_n$ is $A_{n+1}$ with column $n$ and the bottom row removed? (Wondering)

We have that \begin{equation*}A_{n+1}=\begin{pmatrix}A_n & v \\ -v^T & 1 \end{pmatrix}\end{equation*} where $v=\begin{pmatrix}0 \\ \vdots \\ 0 \\ n\end{pmatrix}$.

Applying the Laplace expansion to the bottom most row, we get \begin{align*}\det (A_{n+1})&=(-1)^{n+1+n}\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+(-1)^{n+1+n+1}\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n)\\ & =(-1)^{2n+1}\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+(-1)^{2n+2}\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n) \\ & = (-1)\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+1\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n) \\ & = n\cdot \det (B_n)+\det (A_n)\end{align*}

The matrix $B_n$ is the matrix $A_{n-1}$ together with the last column $v$ and the last row the last row of $A_n$, or not? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
We have that \begin{equation*}A_{n+1}=\begin{pmatrix}A_n & v \\ -v^T & 1 \end{pmatrix}\end{equation*} where $v=\begin{pmatrix}0 \\ \vdots \\ 0 \\ n\end{pmatrix}$.

Applying the Laplace expansion to the bottom most row, we get \begin{align*}\det (A_{n+1})&=(-1)^{n+1+n}\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+(-1)^{n+1+n+1}\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n)\\ & =(-1)^{2n+1}\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+(-1)^{2n+2}\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n) \\ & = (-1)\cdot (-n)\cdot \det (B_n)+1\cdot 1\cdot \det (A_n) \\ & = n\cdot \det (B_n)+\det (A_n)\end{align*}

The matrix $B_n$ is the matrix $A_{n-1}$ together with the last column $v$ and the last row the last row of $A_n$, or not?
(Nod)
 
I like Serena said:
(Nod)

If we apply the Laplace expansion to the last column of $B_n$, i.e. at $v$ we get $\det (B_n)=(-1)^{n+n}\cdot n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})=n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})$, or not?

So we get \begin{align*}\det (A_{n+1})&=n\cdot n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})+\det (A_n)\ \overset{\text{ Inductive hypothesis }}{ = } \ n\cdot n\cdot (n-1)!+n!=n\cdot n!+n!=(n+1)\cdot n! \\ & =(n+1)!\end{align*}

(Wondering)
 
  • #10
mathmari said:
If we apply the Laplace expansion to the last column of $B_n$, i.e. at $v$ we get $\det (B_n)=(-1)^{n+n}\cdot n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})=n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})$, or not?

So we get \begin{align*}\det (A_{n+1})&=n\cdot n\cdot \det (A_{n-1})+\det (A_n)\ \overset{\text{ Inductive hypothesis }}{ = } \ n\cdot n\cdot (n-1)!+n!=n\cdot n!+n!=(n+1)\cdot n! \\ & =(n+1)!\end{align*}

Yep.
And it turned out that we indeed needed strong induction. (Nod)
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
Yep.
And it turned out that we indeed needed strong induction. (Nod)

Great! Thank you! (Smile)
 

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