Show HK are subgroups of a direct product G, HK=KH=G

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around group theory, specifically examining the properties of subgroups within the context of a direct product of two groups, G1 and G2. The original poster presents a problem involving the subgroups H and K, defined in terms of elements from G1 and G2, and aims to show that HK=KH=G and that their intersection is trivial.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to define the subgroups H and K and explore their properties, questioning how to formally prove their subgroup status and the relationships between them. Some participants question the notation used and the implications of elements belonging to both H and K.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning and notation. There is a recognition of the validity of certain proofs presented, although concerns about formality and clarity remain. Multiple interpretations of the subgroup properties and their implications are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the need for formal proof in the discussion, particularly regarding the intersection of H and K. Participants are navigating the balance between intuitive understanding and rigorous mathematical justification.

kathrynag
Messages
595
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Let G1 and G2 be groups and let G be the direct product G1 x G2.
Let H={(x1,x2) in G1 x G2 such that x2=e} and let K={(x1,x2) in G1 x G2

such that x1=e}
a) Show H and K are subgroups of G
b) Show HK=KH=G
c) Show that H intersect K={(e,e)}

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


a) We can further define H and K as (x1,e) and (e,x2)
We want (x1,e) and (e,x2) to be subgroups of (x1,x2). I understand
that for something to be a subgroup, all group properties must hold
under the operation.
b)I guess this portion is telling us we have an abelian group since we
are essentially showing HK=KH.
HK=(x1,e)(e,x2)=(x1e,ex2)
KH=(e,x2)(x1,e)=(ex1,x2e)
G=(x1,x2)
Want to show (x1,e)(e,x2)=(e,x2)(x1,e)=(x1,x2)
We know HK=(x1,e)(e,x2)=(x1e,ex2). By properties of identity elements
e*x=x*e. So (x1e,ex2)=(ex1,x2e)=HK
Furthermore, e*x=x*e=x
Then HK=(x1,x2)=G

C)H=(x1,e), K=(e,x2)
We want H and K
So, (x1,e) and (e,x2)
I'm not sure how to go from there.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
1) You've basically proved this in your last post.
2) Correct, but watch your notation: HK=(x1,e)(e,x2) is a notation which doesn't really makes sense to me. You'd have to write (x1,e)(e,x2)\in HK

3) Take an element in H. This has the form (x,e). What does it mean to say that this element also lies in K?
 
Ok, I realize 1) now.
For 3) let (x,e) be an element of H. If it also lies in K it must be of the form (e,x). So we have to have (e,e). Unsterstanding wise, I get this, but I don't think this would be a formal way of proving it and that's what I don't get.
 
No, it's a good proof. I don't see anything wrong with it...
 
Ok, I just wasn't sure if that was formal enough or not. I guess it shows everything that it should.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
13K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K