Show it without using induction?

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In summary, the conversation discusses how to show the equation f(n) + f(n)f(n-1) + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2) + ... + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2)...f(1) = 2n without using induction. The conversation suggests using a first order difference equation and guessing a solution based on f(n). Ultimately, the solution is found to be 2n.
  • #1
3.14lwy
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how to show this:

if f(x) = 2x/(2x-1)

then show f(n) + f(n)f(n-1) + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2) + ... + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2)...f(1) = 2n .


I have tried to use induction , and I can show it.
but , I can't show it without using induction.


can anyone tell how to show it without using induction?

thank you ! :smile:
 
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  • #2
let S(n) be the sum you want.

Can you relate S(n) to S(n-1) algebraically? Hint, does the LHS of your equation have anything common to every term?
 
  • #3
Do you see what happens when you write out a few terms of the products?

[tex]f(1)f(2)= \frac{2}{1}\frac{4}{3}= \frac{(2)(4)}{(1){3}}[/tex]
[tex]f(1)f(2)f(3)= \frac{2}{1}\frac{4}{3}\frac{6}{5}= \frac{(2)(4)(6)}{(1)(3)(5)[/tex]
and so on. You get a fraction with something "like" a factorial in both numerator and denominator except that the numerator has only even numbers and the denominator only odd numbers.

(2)(4)(6)...(2n)= (2)(1)(2)(2)(2)(3)...(2)(n)= 2n n!
and (1)(3)(5)...(2n+1)= ((1)(2)(3)(4)(5)...(2n)(2n+1))/(2)(4)...(2n))
= (2n+1)!/(2nn!)
Does that give you any ideas?
 
  • #4
matt grime said:
let S(n) be the sum you want.

Can you relate S(n) to S(n-1) algebraically? Hint, does the LHS of your equation have anything common to every term?


I find S(n) = f(n)*S(n-1)

and f(n) = (2^2n)(n!)/(2n+1)!

then , S(n) = product of (2^2r)(r!)/(2r+1)! from r = 1 to n

am I right ?

however i still don't know how to do?
 
  • #5
3.14lwy said:
I find S(n) = f(n)*S(n-1)
am I right?

No, you're not right.
 
  • #6
matt grime said:
No, you're not right.

Oh! :-p

it should be S(n) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)]

but still don't know :confused:

if it is in this from:

X(n) = aX(n-1) + b

i can find X(n) in term of a , b and X(1) ,


but now the a and the b is changing........ :confused:
 
  • #7
You've found a first order difference equation. As with differential equations you guess a solution by inspection based upon f(n).
 
  • #8
matt grime said:
You've found a first order difference equation. As with differential equations you guess a solution by inspection based upon f(n).

S(n) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)]

S(n) - S(n-1) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)] - S(n-1)
= f(n) + [f(n) - 1]S(n-1)

____________________________________________________

S(1) = 2/1 = 2

S(2) = 4/3 + 8/3 = 12/3 = 4

S(3) = 6/5 + (6*4)/(5*3) + (6*4*2)/(5*3*1)
= 2*3/5 + 2*4/5 + 2*4*2/5
= 2[3/5 + 3*(4/5)]
= 2*3*(5/5) = 6

S(4)
...
...
...
..
.

S(2) - S(1) = 2......
......


I really cannot find the solution :cry:
 
Last edited:
  • #9
You're given 2n, and asked to *show* it is the solution, so it is perfectly acceptable to check it satisfies the recurrence relation by simple substitution.

And:

[tex]S(n) = \frac{2n(1+S(n-1))}{2n-1}[/tex]

it is clear what kind of answer you should guess from looking at that ie that 2n is what you want since 2n-1 = 2(n-1)+1
 
Last edited:

Related to Show it without using induction?

1. How can I show something without using induction?

To show something without using induction, you can use other methods of proof such as direct proof, proof by contradiction, or proof by contrapositive.

2. Is it always necessary to use induction to prove something?

No, it is not always necessary to use induction to prove something. Depending on the statement, there may be other methods of proof that are more suitable.

3. What are the limitations of using induction in a proof?

One limitation of using induction in a proof is that it only works for certain types of statements, such as those involving natural numbers. It also requires a base case and an inductive step, which may be difficult to determine for more complex statements.

4. Can you give an example of a proof that does not use induction?

Yes, a proof by contradiction is a common example of a proof that does not use induction. In this type of proof, we assume the opposite of what we want to prove and show that it leads to a contradiction, thus proving the original statement.

5. How do I know which method of proof to use?

Choosing the right method of proof depends on the statement you are trying to prove and your personal preference. It is important to understand the strengths and limitations of each method and choose the one that is most suitable for the given statement.

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