Show L is Countable - Set of Continuities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the set L, consisting of points where a function f is right-continuous but not left-continuous, is countable. Participants explore definitions, propose methods for counting L, and discuss the implications of continuity properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define right-continuity and left-continuity, emphasizing the conditions that characterize points in L.
  • One participant proposes a method to count L by examining subsets defined by thresholds on ε, suggesting that if each subset is countable, then L is countable as a union of these subsets.
  • Another participant introduces a lemma that relates the existence of a threshold ε to the countability of points in L, suggesting that if certain conditions hold, then the set of points can be counted.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of continuity properties, where participants explore contradictions that arise if certain assumptions about continuity are violated.
  • One participant acknowledges a mistake in their previous definitions and clarifies their reasoning, indicating the iterative nature of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to show that L is countable through the examination of subsets defined by ε. However, there is no explicit consensus on the definitions and implications of continuity properties, as some participants correct or refine earlier claims.

Contextual Notes

Some definitions and assumptions regarding continuity may be incomplete or depend on specific interpretations, which could affect the validity of the arguments presented.

student12s
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I've been trying to answer the following question:
Let f be an arbitrary function of $(-\infty,+\infty)$ and let L be the set of point where f is right-continuous but not left-continuous. Show that L is countable.
Any help?
 
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Start with the definitions... if f is right continuous at p, that means that for any e>0, there is a d>0 such that at every point q in the interval (p,p+d), |f(p)-f(q)| < e.

Conversely, if f is not left continuous at a point p, that means that there exists an e>0 such that there is no d>0 such that at every point q in (p-d,p), |f(p)-f(q)| < e. At each point p, pick some e=e(p) that works for the definition of left continuous at that p. (choose e(p) = 0 if p is not in L, for convenience)

Now, here is a method you can count L by: first count {p in L : e(p) > 1}. Then count {p in L : e(p) > 1/2}. Then count {p in L : e(p) > 1/4}. And so forth. L is the union of these sets, and the countable union of countable sets is itself countable, so this gives a way to count L.

To show that this works, you first need to show that for any k>0, {p in L : e(p) > k} is countable. You can do this by first proving a lemma that at each such p, there is some f>0 such that for every point q in the interval (p, p + f), e(q) <= k. (Prove it by contradiction using the definition of right continuous). Now all you have to do is show that the lemma implies {p in L : e(p) > k} is countable, which shouldn't be too hard (just devise some way to count a bunch of isolated points).
 
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Thank you very much. Given your guidance, I think I managed to prove the claim.

Let p be the set of point of f where f is right-continuous but not left-continuous and let p be an element of L.

Since f is not left-continuous in p, there is \epsilon(p)>0 such that, for all \delta>0, there is q \in (p-\delta,p) such that |f(p)-f(q)|>\epsilon(p).

Now define M_n = \{p \in L: \epsilon(p)>\frac{1}{n}\}. If we show that M_n is countable then we are done since L=\cup_n M_n.

Now we use your lemma. For any p \in M_n there is a k(p) such that if m in (p,p+k), \epsilon(m)<1/n

Suppose this is not true. Then f is not right-continuous, since for any k, there exists m,n s.t. p
< n < m \leq p+k and |f(m)-f(n)|>1/n. Since k is arbitrary, f(p) is not right-continuous.

Finally, note that we can pick k so that p+k is rational. So there is a one-to-one mapping between points p in M_n and p+k(p) in a subset of the rational numbers, showing that M_n is countable. Since the countable union of countable sets is also countable, L is countable.
 
I just realized I botched the definitions in my last post. Fixed in the edit
student12s said:
Now we use your lemma. For any p \in M_n there is a k(p) such that if m in (p,p+k), \epsilon(m)<1/n

Suppose this is not true. Then f is not right-continuous, since for any k, there exists m,n s.t. p
< n < m \leq p+k and |f(m)-f(n)|>1/n. Since k is arbitrary, f(p) is not right-continuous.
You could use some more detail here. (Also, you used n twice). It would go more like this:

Suppose the lemma is not true. Then there is some p in M_n such that for any k, there is an m in (p,p+k) where e(m) >= 1/n. Now since p is right-continuous, for any e' there is a d such that if q is in (p,p+d) then |f(p)-f(q)| < e'. Choose e'=1/(2n), and k=d. Using the fact that e(m) >= 1/n, that means we can pick any d' and there will be a point q' in (m-d',m) where |f(m)-f(q')| > e(m) >= 1/n. Choose d' so that p < p+d' < m, which means q' is in (p,p+d). Summarizing the situation, we have:
|f(p)-f(q')| < 1/(2n)
|f(p)-f(m)| < 1/(2n)
|f(m)-f(q')| >= 1/n
You can show there's a contradiction with these three inequalities.

Finally, note that we can pick k so that p+k is rational. So there is a one-to-one mapping between points p in M_n and p+k(p) in a subset of the rational numbers, showing that M_n is countable. Since the countable union of countable sets is also countable, L is countable.
Heh, nice.
 
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Yes, the triangular inequality yields the contradiction. thanks
 

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