Showing that rings kZ and lZ, where l≠k are not isomorphic.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the rings kZ and lZ, where l≠k, are not isomorphic. Participants are exploring the properties of isomorphisms between these rings and attempting to generalize findings from specific cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss defining an arbitrary isomorphism and reaching a contradiction. There are attempts to show that k maps to a multiple of l and to explore injectivity by considering mappings that lead to zero. Questions arise regarding the implications of specific mappings and the behavior of the function under various conditions.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided encouragement and validation of the approaches being taken. Hints have been offered to guide the exploration of the problem, particularly regarding the behavior of the function with respect to specific values and the inverse map.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of proving non-isomorphism without relying on specific numerical examples, which has been noted as a challenge. The discussion reflects a mix of attempts to generalize findings while questioning the assumptions made in the definitions of the mappings.

jmjlt88
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I have shown that Z is not isomorphic to 2Z and that 2Z is not isomorphic to 3Z. I need now to generalize this. Thus, to prove that rings kZ and lZ, where l≠k are not isomorphic, I need to define an arbitrary isomorphism, and reach a contradiction. So here's what I am thinking. I let f: kZ->lZ be a isomorphism. Then, f(k)=ln , where n is some integer. This is true since k in kZ has to go to some multiple of l. From here, I have just been tinkering around trying to get k to map to 0 so that f is not injective. This worked for the first two. Is this the right approach? Not really looking for a hint, but just an "okay" to keep trying working with this line of reasoning.
 
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Yeah, I think that's a valid approach. Go on, you'll get there.

Ask anytime if you want a hint :-p
 
Okay, I give! =) A little hint would be great. When working with specific numbers, it was so easy to show that an isomorphism cannot exist. Now, I cannot get anything to work (or not work, I guess). A nudge in the right direction would be nice. Or else, this problem will keep me up all night!
 
jmjlt88 said:
Okay, I give! =) A little hint would be great. When working with specific numbers, it was so easy to show that an isomorphism cannot exist. Now, I cannot get anything to work (or not work, I guess). A nudge in the right direction would be nice. Or else, this problem will keep me up all night!

Think about f(k^2).
 
Hmmmm...

I worked with that for while. Perhaps, I couldn't see the forest through the trees (or maybe I made an error). Here's what I had.

f(k2)=f(k)f(k)=l2n2

f(k k)=f(k)+f(k)+...+f(k) [k-times]=k(ln)

Now, I know that k≠l. But perhaps there would be a problem if k=ln?
 
OK, so we can deduce that k=ln.

Now think about the inverse map f^{-1} and do something similar.
 

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