Slightly confused about potential energy in an electrostatic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electrostatic potential energy (EPE) in a system of two charged particles, A and B. Participants explore the implications of energy conservation when one particle is held stationary while the other is released, questioning how EPE is distributed and transformed into kinetic energy (KE).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • James outlines a method for calculating the maximum velocity of particle B when released from a stationary particle A, based on the conversion of EPE to KE.
  • James expresses confusion about the implications of energy conservation, questioning whether the EPE loss of both particles should be accounted for in the KE gain of B.
  • One participant suggests that EPE should be viewed as belonging to the system of both particles A and B, rather than to either particle individually.
  • Another participant elaborates on Coulomb's Law, emphasizing that the force and potential energy are fundamentally linked to the interaction between both charges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of EPE in the context of energy conservation. There are differing views on how to conceptualize the potential energy in the system.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the distribution of EPE and KE, particularly in scenarios involving fixed and moving charges. There is an implicit assumption that the system's total energy is conserved, but the specifics of how EPE is allocated remain unresolved.

jimbobian
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Hi everyone, I don't know how I manage it but I've gone and confused myself about something which I was fairly confident about right before an exam... again!

So here's the deal.

Let's imagine two particles A and B which have charge Q and q respectively and are separated by a distance r (I know, imaginative right?).
Now, if A is held in place and B is released then I can calculate its maximum velocity through these steps:

1) Get the EPE of B \frac{k_{e}Qq}{r}
2) Assume all of the EPE becomes KE and so \frac{m_{B} v_{max}^2}{2} = \frac{k_{e}Qq}{r}
3) Rearrange for v and job done

But whilst I've been happily doing this for a while, I realized that A is losing EPE as well. If A is being held stationary and is losing EPE, but only B is gaining KE then surely the KE gain of B ought to be the sum of the EPE loss of A and B otherwise energy conservation is violated.
But as all the calculations I've ever done have never shown this to be the truth I am doubting this thought.
So, I had a quick discussion with someone and we came to the conclusion that maybe we had a more fundamental misunderstanding of EPE and that in reality the system has an EPE given by equation 1. When B is allowed to move from A, the EPE of the system decreases to zero as the KE of B increases by the same amount.

So, anyone want to jump in and help me out?!

Cheers,
James
 
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Don't think of the EPE as belonging to either A or B. Instead, think of it as belonging to the system of A and B together.
 
Lovely, that's what I was expecting to hear. Thanks a lot
 
Hello, James.

To expand a bit on Doc Al's answer.

Strictly according to Coulomb's Law the force between the (any two) charges is

F = \frac{1}{{4\pi {\varepsilon _0}}}\frac{{{Q_1}{Q_2}}}{{{r^2}}}

This force requires that there be two charges for it to exist and is regarded as the fundamental law of electricity.

This law provides the link between electricity and mechanics.

Very often we find it convenient to consider one charge fixed (as you have done with A) and to consider that a generates an 'electric field'. Then we often call the other charge (your B) a 'test charge'.
We then attribute potential energy to B as it moves about in the 'field' of A. Again as you have done.

go well
 

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