Slumdog Millioraire - How close is it to

[Equate]

"Slumdog Millioraire" - How close is it to

real life in India? Is this it?

Does it, the movie, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1010048/" depict the sentiments in India?

I know there are quite a few Indian people frequenting this board, so please chime in and clarify some issues I have.

- How prevalent is the caste system nowadays? I saw "Slumdog Millioraire" for the first time yesterday, and quite frankly, I was shocked.

I gather there is not much respect amongst Indian peoples of different "classes", disrespect seems to be a "given". Where does India "fit in" in our, oh so "developed society" nowadays?

I'm at a loss here.

 

[Sorry!]

real life in India? Is this it?

Does it, the movie, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1010048/" depict the sentiments in India?

I know there are quite a few Indian people frequenting this board, so please chime in and clarify some issues I have.

- How prevalent is the caste system nowadays?


I saw "Slumdog Millioraire" for the first time yesterday, and quite frankly, I was shocked.

I gather there is not much respect amongst Indian peoples of different "classes", disrespect seems to be a "given". Where does India "fit in" in our, oh so "developed society" nowadays?

I'm at a loss here.

I have a friend who is a female Indian. She says the movie portrays some parts of India very well. Of course there are always going to be those other areas where these cultural values are 'less' prevelant but the way she made it sound for the most part it is true.

The caste system is also still used she explained it to me. Her family is a bit more relaxed about it though (they live in Canada) as her current boyfriend is from a lower ranking caste (hers is actually one of the highest). She says her family will probably care when they find out but she doesn't think they will force her to do anything based on her 'status'. If anything it would be based on other factors.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Rent the "Namesake" and "Bride and Prejudice" :)

 

[rootX]

How close is it to

No one knows...

 

[Phrak]

Rent the "Namesake" and "Bride and Prejudice" :)

Was that a typo? Do you mean "Pride and Prejudice"?

I haven't seen the movie in question. However, Indian casting is alive an well in America among Indians, by the way. The subliminal body language is stark if you have had a chance to take notice. High caste Indians as young as 30 in the US have been taught their innate superiority as children and it sticks. My database consists of 6 high caste individuals; 6 out of 6 displaying internalized beliefs of superiority.

Amazing things happen if you attempt to shake hands with such individuals. They undergo some awesome culture clashing that dances behind their eyes. More than once, my automatic reactions of respect have caused internal alarm. In my ignorance I left one poor fellow disjoint for weeks, soul searching his role as an Indian in America. This English tradition is fundamentally at odds with Indian tradition where the higher castes are contaminated by bodily contact with us low-lifers, requiring bodily and spiritual cleansing.

 

[Equate]

Was that a typo? Do you mean "Pride and Prejudice"?

Unfortunately there are about 329,000 Google hits for Bride and Prejudice http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...ourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Bride+and+Prejudice

Jane Austen turns over in her grave, poor soul...

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Was that a typo? Do you mean "Pride and Prejudice"?

it's an awesome bollywood movie I saw in toronto last winter

 

[Phrak]

it's an awesome bollywood movie I saw in toronto last winter

Do you think this movie is indicative of a caste revolution in India akin to the sexual or racial revolutions in America?

 

[dx]

I'm from India (lived there for 10 years), and I can tell you that the caste system is close to non-existent in the developed cities. In fact, in my 10 years there, I've never met a person expressing such sentiments.

 

[Wisey]

I live in Chennai, India, and I can safely state that the caste system is still well and alive in the present day.

I myself am supposed to belong to a family of a higher caste, and I have seen my own family members talk about inter-caste marriages as if it were a crime. Even inter-caste marriages between higher castes is looked down upon. However, it really depends on who you choose to associate with. I have met many people who have no such feelings or sentiments, and most of them were the educated affluent, but I have seen exceptions on both sides.

However, I have hardly seen the caste system affect anyone in normal life, at least in the part of society I am familiar with. I am 19, in my first year of college, and I have never seen caste as an issue in any incident in all my years of schooling. Among my generation, and I speak for those who are somewhat well off and educated, the caste system is nearly dead.

I really cannot speak for the whole of India however, the caste system is still taken very seriously by large parts of the population I suppose, as politicians here tend to win elections using caste-based vote bank politics, There is also a caste-based quota system in existence for appointment to government jobs, and for admission to state run higher educational institutions.

 

[ank_gl]

The stupid system is still very much in place, alive & still raring because of some stupid a** politicians who manipulate the uneducated masses of India.

Well really its not they who started it. Caste system existed in India forever as i far as i know. It is supposed to originate from the god books(like you guys have bible & those things), it says that the god is divided into 4 parts, head hands torso & legs, & so follows the hierarchy of caste system in same order.

More that region, religion, color, language, sex, India is divided on caste basis. there are just innumerable sub categories. People don't marry in different caste, don't intermingle with them, heck don't even want to have them as neighbours(be it any caste). ehh. talk about interracial stuff;))

Pretty bad as it already was, government was like, ehh. we are the politiicians! how can the caste system be worse than us, so let's manipulate it. So the country got its reservation practices based on caste. So called lower castes were categorised in Scheduled caste/ scheduled tribe & other backward castes(OBCs) and as of now, the complete government structure has full fledged army of working class of people who were not competent enough but were given access because of being from the lower caste. Now they would say"err. it would uplift them". And what has happened in last 40-45 years? more & more people demand that their caste gets recognised as SC,ST or OBCs so that they too can avail the *advantages*.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Gurjar_unrest_in_Rajasthan
what can be more funny & sad?

That being said, yes the educated class does show some reluctance to accept caste system, they do seem to be moving, BUT it is still there, alive.

Riches & poor equally enjoy the goodies of the flawed system. Until & unless we get a very strong personality at the top, the entire system is doomed to go down, sooner or later

 

[sganesh88]

Different people have different prejudices. Racism was "officially" prevalent in America a few tens of years before. I still don't think inter-racial marriages are very common there. When i read about Eugenics and how the apparently civilized, educated and wise men like Bernard Shaw supported it, i really think whether such disgusting practices are confined to India and other such stereotyped countries.
Indian civilization is thousands of years old and the caste system wouldn't die without a fight before another set of "decent" prejudices and "widely accepted beliefs" take over.

 

[sganesh88]

And slumdog is a film that was aimed to give the people around the world-including the Oscar judges- the message that what they think about India is absolutely right.. A single person gets affected by all the problems and embarrassments of a nation within these 23 years (or 2 hours). Nothing should be missed, the filmmakers decided. From the sh*t-dwelling people to the BPOs..
I am assuring you that there many beautiful people here; like me :)

 

[lisab]

Different people have different prejudices. Racism was "officially" prevalent in America a few tens of years before. I still don't think inter-racial marriages are very common there. When i read about Eugenics and how the apparently civilized, educated and wise men like Bernard Shaw supported it, i really think whether such disgusting practices are confined to India and other such stereotyped countries.
Indian civilization is thousands of years old and the caste system wouldn't die without a fight before another set of "decent" prejudices and "widely accepted beliefs" take over.

No, inter-racial racial relationshipshttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18090277/" . Our President is the product of such a union.

Eugenics hasn't been an accepted dogma for...maybe 90 years? In American culture, that's an eternity. I bet the majority of Americans don't even know what it is.

 

[sganesh88]

Eugenics "was" widely accepted.. Not now.
And do you really think no white in America has any reluctance in marrying a black? Truth please. What i am trying to say is that people irrespective of their nationality tend to stick to some belief and hold onto it. Laws and rulings can't change mindsets.

 

[rootX]

Different people have different prejudices. Racism was "officially" prevalent in America a few tens of years before. I still don't think inter-racial marriages are very common there. When i read about Eugenics and how the apparently civilized, educated and wise men like Bernard Shaw supported it, i really think whether such disgusting practices are confined to India and other such stereotyped countries.
Indian civilization is thousands of years old and the caste system wouldn't die without a fight before another set of "decent" prejudices and "widely accepted beliefs" take over.

Nothing is perfect. There are many movies that addressed the racism issue in America so I think there is nothing wrong with the "Slumdog" movie itself. But then people who don't know much about other cultures/the world shouldn't watch these kind of movies. Something like Indians developing conclusions about America and American culture based on what they saw in one movie.

 

[sganesh88]

Nothing is perfect. There are many movies that addressed the racism issue in America so I think there is nothing wrong with the "Slumdog" movie itself. But then people who don't know much about other cultures/the world shouldn't watch these kind of movies. Something like Indians developing conclusions about America and American culture based on what they saw in one movie.

The thing that differentiates the two cases is that slumdog movie wasn't taken by an Indian nor was it taken by a foreigner who did some thorough research on the related problems by being in India for several years. I would be happy if someone would prove my claim wrong.

 

[rootX]

The thing that differentiates the two cases is that slumdog movie wasn't taken by an Indian nor was it taken by a foreigner who did some thorough research on the related problems by being in India for several years. I would be happy if someone would prove my claim wrong.

Are you saying that they just made up some of the issues that do not exist in India?

 

[sganesh88]

Are you saying that they just made up some of the issues that do not exist in India?

I can take a love story of two Americans. I have never been there. It would suck. That doesn't mean there is no love in the US right?
Filming is not about portraying something. Its about how you portray it.

 

[rootX]

I can take a love story of two Americans. I have never been there. It would suck. That doesn't mean there is no love in the US right?
Filming is not about portraying something. Its about how you portray it.

I understand what you are trying to say. I agree that an Indian (who knows more about his/her culture than that he/she is an Indian) or a foreigner who have done extensive research on Indian culture would have portrayed the culture/issues in different fashion.

 

[lisab]

Eugenics "was" widely accepted.. Not now.
And do you really think no white in America has any reluctance in marrying a black? Truth please. What i am trying to say is that people irrespective of their nationality tend to stick to some belief and hold onto it. Laws and rulings can't change mindsets.

I agree with you that you can't change culture by laws; that's pretty self evident to anyone who knows anything about human beings.

The way you worded your comment about interracial marriage...well of course there is at least one white person in America who would be reluctant to marry a black person - that's a straw man argument. Logic, please.

The fact is indisputable: interracial marriage is very common in America (as it is in much of Western culture), and if anything it's increasing in frequency.

 

[sganesh88]

I understand what you are trying to say. I agree that an Indian (who knows more about his/her culture than that he/she is an Indian) or a foreigner who have done extensive research on Indian culture would have portrayed the culture in different fashion and displayed the issues in a better way.

Exactly. This was meant to be a hit worldwide. Like 2012. So discussing the contents of this film is like discussing whether the world's really going to end in 2012 after watching the film 2012.

 

[sganesh88]

The fact is indisputable: interracial marriage is very common in America (as it is in much of Western culture), and if anything it's increasing in frequency.

i wouldn't call 7 percent as "very common". From the initial 2 percent, its a decent improvement.

well of course there is at least one white person in America who would be reluctant to marry a black person

I wish other Americans would comment on whether there is a wide spread approval and open mindedness regarding inter-racial marriage in the US.

This is not an India vs US debate. Frankly i don't consider myself an ardent Indian and all that. I just want to say that a majority of people in the world hold onto one belief system or the other. Settling themselves into one group and defending the "purity" of that group(based on color, nation, status, power,height, sex or whatever).

 

[ank_gl]

I would be happy if someone would prove my claim wrong.

what is your claim? I would be more than happy to discuss.

The point of this thread is not to defame india, it is to know if the situation exists or not. Yes US & other western developed countries had their share of taboos & bad things, there is no denying to it. But here in India, it is still continuing, & is continuing very strongly.

Yes there are a ton of beautiful places in India, a lot of awesome things are there. I live in New delhi, in one of the most developed and clean part of the city, with all the comforts of life. But that doesn't give you the full picture, does it?

Situation is pretty bad, poverty, poor level of education, casteism, racism, regionalism(sure you know about the bombay thing, don't u?), situation IS uniquely bad.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Unfortunately there are about 329,000 Google hits for Bride and Prejudice http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...ourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Bride+and+Prejudice

Jane Austen turns over in her grave, poor soul...

Um... Bride and Prejudice is a real movie (and quite a good one IMHO). It's a holly/bollywood take on Jane Austen and a musical and was what the poster was referring to. It stars Aishwarya Rai (who is apparently one of the most "powerful" people in the world) and Alexis Bledel and Naveen Andrews amongst others and was directed by Gurinder Chadha of "Bend it like Beckham" fame. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361411/

 

[sganesh88]

what is your claim? I would be more than happy to discuss.

That Danny Boyle didn't do enough research to portray the problems of India. Of course its his right. But he should have thought that such a film will induce people to form opinions about India.

Yes US & other western developed countries had their share of taboos & bad things, there is no denying to it.

This is where we differ. I think the oh-so civilized people of the US and other developed countries also have their own share of prejudices. Its inevitable. Even the apparently elite people living in New Delhi have. Because of the huge population and relatively poor economy, the prejudices in India are more visible.

situation IS uniquely bad.

Its not. It has been like this for the past several thousand years. Do you think all those who lived then hated their lives every single day and died happily? People adapt. Life finds its way. Those poor children have moments of true happiness and laughter that the apparently decent well-educated corporate guys miss or ignore..There is no absolute standard for life. We construct an imaginary standard and feel they will suffer throughout their lives.

 

[lisab]

what is your claim? I would be more than happy to discuss.

The point of this thread is not to defame india, it is to know if the situation exists or not. Yes US & other western developed countries had their share of taboos & bad things, there is no denying to it. But here in India, it is still continuing, & is continuing very strongly.

Yes there are a ton of beautiful places in India, a lot of awesome things are there. I live in New delhi, in one of the most developed and clean part of the city, with all the comforts of life. But that doesn't give you the full picture, does it?

Situation is pretty bad, poverty, poor level of education, casteism, racism, regionalism(sure you know about the bombay thing, don't u?), situation IS uniquely bad.

I've always been completely charmed by India, and I'd love so much to visit someday. I know it has problems (what place doesn't? there is no heaven on Earth), but although its problems may be uniquely bad, it is uniquely good in many other ways as well, I bet.

Someday I'll visit, if I'm lucky .

 

[russ_watters]

The thing that differentiates the two cases is that slumdog movie wasn't taken by an Indian nor was it taken by a foreigner who did some thorough research on the related problems by being in India for several years. I would be happy if someone would prove my claim wrong.
[separate post]
That Danny Boyle didn't do enough research to portray the problems of India. Of course its his right. But he should have thought that such a film will induce people to form opinions about India.

It sounds like you are saying the movie was made by a foreigner who didn't know what they were talking about. That's just wrong: the movie is based on a book written by an Indian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumdog_Millionaire

Boyle wasn't making the movie from scratch, he was simply adapting a book! The research wasn't his to do!

Of course we know it was only a movie and a fiction movie at that, not a documentary. But that doesn't automatically make it an inaccurate portrayal. It's certainly a legitimate question.

 

[sganesh88]

That's just wrong: the movie is based on a book written by an Indian

Reading a book makes Danny Boyle completely knowledgeable of the problems of India? And that book was also a fiction(named Q & A by Vikas Swarup) and not a commentary by some social researcher on these issues.

But that doesn't automatically make it an inaccurate portrayal.

The problem is Danny was intent on showing *all* the problems within the two hours.. If you say it was completely coincidental rather than deliberate, then off i go!

 

[DaveC426913]

I've always been completely charmed by India, and I'd love so much to visit someday.

Off the top of my head, two places it excels:

India is virtually unequaled in the beauty of its fashions and clothing. I would wish to to be Indian just so I could wear those beautiful things.

And the people themselves can be astoundingly, shockingly beautiful.

 

[lisab]

Off the top of my head, two places it excels:

India is virtually unequaled in the beauty of its fashions and clothing. I would wish to to be Indian just so I could wear those beautiful things.

And the people themselves can be astoundingly, shockingly beautiful.

I totally agree! And the natural landscape...and then the food...ahhhhh :!)!

 

[sganesh88]

And the people themselves can be astoundingly, shockingly beautiful.

Still i am single. Well that i'd confess is the unique problem of India. Guys find it very difficult to "correct" a girl. That's the term we use. It means "impress" and not anything else. :D

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Off the top of my head, two places it excels:

India is virtually unequaled in the beauty of its fashions and clothing. I would wish to to be Indian just so I could wear those beautiful things.

And the people themselves can be astoundingly, shockingly beautiful.

See Aishwarya Rai

 

[DaveC426913]

I totally agree! And the natural landscape...and then the food...ahhhhh :!)!

OK, sorry, Can't go with you on the food...

 

[DaveC426913]

See Aishwarya Rai

I've seen her. I've seen many of the more popular Bollywood flicks that have made it to the West.

But I don't just mean the women.

In general, I am virtually blind to ostensibly good-looking men, but even I would bear http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0707983/" 's children.

 

[WiFO215]

And the people themselves can be astoundingly, shockingly beautiful.

Ah, how true! How true! *Kisses self in self-admiration*

@ the OPs question:
The caste system is still very much prevelant in India. There are many causes. Partly it is the fault of the politicians who use the existing systems to stay in power. For instance, if you were to attend a public gathering where a politician was addressing a the people, you'd find something along the lines of " I will make sure caste X get reservations (a quota system) in all sections of society because they are being oppressed by caste Y and are finding it hard to come up in life". Likewise, he will claim the same thing to caste Y. Castes X and Y, immediately moved to tears will vote for this bloke while he does absolutely nothing after coming to power. Like Bernard Shaw put it, we are in the hands of best demagogue on that day. They make sure that there remains such a cultural divide so that they can retain power.

Partly, it is a fault of the people themselves. It is a similar to the society Brave New World. The situation is akin to the Beta's chiming "Boy, I'm sure glad I'm a Beta and not an Alpha" and the Alphas doing the opposite. Where this conditioning stems from is a mystery, but it has a bad impact on society.

Let us hope it gets better.

 

[martharon]

Its very sad to admit that what has been shown in "Slumdog Millioraire" is true almost. there is still caste system in some parts even the schools and colleges are given admission based on the categories like oc, bc, mbc...
apart from this there are many amazing wonders in India.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Its very sad to admit that what has been shown in "Slumdog Millioraire" is true almost. there is still caste system in some parts even the schools and colleges are given admission based on the categories like oc, bc, mbc...
apart from this there are many amazing wonders in India.

My opinion of slumdog millionaire was that though every individual part of the movie is in someway representative of life for someone in India the statistical likelihood of ALL that stuff happening to one person is absurd. It would be like a hollywood movie about a young black kid growing up in the ghetto who before the age of 12 fathered 3 children, had multiple drug addictions, AIDs, cancer was ostracized by his peers leading him to a school shooting where he got thrown into prison but found himself through the poetry of emerson and the lyrics of tupac and despite institutional racism and rose to become president. Sure, it COULD happen but really it's a medley of sensationalist Times magazine articles and stereotypes/cliches.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

i wouldn't call 7 percent as "very common".

if every single noncaucasian person in the country (men, women, children, the already married, ect) married a white person all of the couples added up together would constitute less than half of the potential pairings in the country. so 7% is fairly significant i'd say.

 

[ank_gl]

@sganesh
Keep denying the problem, keep yourself in denial mode.

If you can't see the problem, you can't solve it.

 

[russ_watters]

Reading a book makes Danny Boyle completely knowledgeable of the problems of India?

No: but it does relieve him of the responsibility to research them if he is merely adapting the book!

And, of course, none of this has anything to do with whether the movie was accurate or not: you are arguing around the issue.

And that book was also a fiction(named Q & A by Vikas Swarup) and not a commentary by some social researcher on these issues.

Yes. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with whether it is a generally accurate portrayal or not. You are the one trying to elevate the responsibility of the filmmakers here.

The problem is Danny was intent on showing *all* the problems within the two hours.. If you say it was completely coincidental rather than deliberate, then off i go!

There is no need for me to argue coincidental vs deliberate since you are arguing about something you could not possibly know: what was going on inside Danny's head!

Again, these are all just diversionary tactics. They don't have anything directly to do with whether the book and/or movie were accurate.

 

[russ_watters]

My opinion of slumdog millionaire was that though every individual part of the movie is in someway representative of life for someone in India the statistical likelihood of ALL that stuff happening to one person is absurd.

That should be obvious - the kid is essentially winning the lottery based on that combination of unlikely life experiences. And the more specific you get, the closer to zero the probability of more than one person having your life experiences. Heck, the first one alone is an essentially unique expeirence!

 

[jobyts]

I've always been completely charmed by India, and I'd love so much to visit someday. I know it has problems (what place doesn't? there is no heaven on Earth), but although its problems may be uniquely bad, it is uniquely good in many other ways as well, I bet.

Someday I'll visit, if I'm lucky .

lisab, duriing your visit, you are invited to stay at my home:) My home state is said to be one of the most beautiful and unique. Do a google image search for kerala.
To give a heads up, - within India, Kerala has
the highest literacy,
lowest death rate,
lowest birth rate,
lowest corruption rate,
highest suicide rate,
highest alchohol consumption,
highest religious harmony

 

[WiFO215]

To give a heads up, - within India, Kerala has

A COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT

Just kidding.

 

[b.shahvir]

I'm from India (as most of my forum friends might be aware) and I'm not a Hindu by birth, although I follow Hindu philosophy for my spiritual upliftment. Actually I'm a Zoroastrian (follower of the prophet Zarathustra) and we do not have concept of casteism in my religion.

Nonetheless, I felt I should give my 2 cent worth... The developed world is currently dabbling with issue of racism against ethnic asians, but I still believe this is natural human nature depicting survival of the fittest. At times it is evident that ethnic Asians (especially Indians) fail to come to turns with the western way of life and hence the issues.

However, at this point I must state that the developed world should not give into ridiculous levels of political correctness just for the upliftment of minorities. Citizens of the developed world too have a right to status pride. Although all human beings are created equal, desparity in nature exists and cannot be avoided! Political correctness will lead to mockery of the developed world. Migrants cannot stake a claim on every land.

My sincere apologies if I've offended anyone, but these are purely my views.

Regards,
Shahvir

 

[sganesh88]

You are the one trying to elevate the responsibility of the filmmakers here. There is no need for me to argue coincidental vs deliberate since you are arguing about something you could not possibly know: what was going on inside Danny's head!

He does have a responsibility considering the reach of Hollywood. This thread is itself an example.

They don't have anything directly to do with whether the book and/or movie were accurate.

It isn't about accuracy. Of course India has the problems portrayed. But showing them all in a single film is distasteful according to me. Maverick Strider explained it better.

 

[sganesh88]

My sincere apologies if I've offended anyone, but these are purely my views.

I didn't quite understand what you're trying to say. Whats this "political correctness"?

 

[Sorry!]

He does have a responsibility considering the reach of Hollywood. This thread is itself an example.

It isn't about accuracy. Of course India has the problems portrayed. But showing them all in a single film is distasteful according to me. Maverick Strider explained it better.

I'm certain that the OP was questioning about the specific problems and whether they occurred in India not if these same situations arise for every person who is born in India; that's stupid.

From that friend I spoke of earlier she said it is very true to real-life in India. Many of those situations happened directly to her family... Her mom spoke of the riots that occurred between muslims/hindus (they are hindu). In the movie it was shown only from the slums but these riots definitely effected areas outside the slums.

I can speak from personal research I've done for photography class that the slums in the movie look quite real-to-life and the situation with drugs/prostitution etc. are all real problems in India.

Even that movie and the actor who Jamal goes to get the signature from are real... lol?

So the OPs question has been answered, yes India does have the problems from the movie.
How does this have anything to do with it being 'distasteful'? I thought that the movie was good. Please explain why you think that it is distasteful for all these problems to be portrayed in a single movie? Would you rather have them release a series? This movie costs what under $20 million? It grossed well over $350 million last I checked; something must've gone right.

 

[b.shahvir]

I didn't quite understand what you're trying to say. Whats this "political correctness"?

political correctness is something which the lawmakers of the developed world normally depict when they give certain incentyives or make policies keeping in mind upliftment of the minoroties...all that is OK but it shouldn't be to the extent of ridiculousness

 

[Sorry!]

political correctness is something which the lawmakers of the developed world normally depict when they give certain incentyives or make policies keeping in mind upliftment of the minoroties...all that is OK but it shouldn't be to the extent of ridiculousness

What exactly was the intent of this post... Are you a troll sir?