Solid Propellant Burn Rate Sensitivity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of air density changes on the burn rate of solid propellant engines, particularly in the context of flying model rockets at different elevations. Participants explore how atmospheric pressure influences rocket performance and thrust, comparing conditions at higher altitudes to those at sea level.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the change in atmospheric pressure due to elevation will not significantly affect the burn rate compared to chamber pressure, which is a primary factor in thrust.
  • Others argue that rocket performance improves as atmospheric pressure decreases, indicating that rockets perform better in lower pressure environments, such as in space.
  • One participant notes that drag increases with atmospheric density, suggesting that rockets can achieve higher altitudes at lower densities.
  • A later reply questions whether higher atmospheric pressure might decrease performance, despite expectations that chamber pressure and reaction rates would increase.
  • Another participant emphasizes the relationship between chamber pressure and burn rate, indicating that the burn rate influences chamber pressure.
  • Some participants mention that the fuel and oxidizer in solid rockets are pre-mixed, implying that atmospheric oxygen does not affect combustion once initiated.
  • Concerns are raised about the significance of differential pressure between 2550 ft and sea level, with some suggesting that drag is the more critical factor in performance changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the influence of atmospheric pressure on rocket performance, with no consensus reached regarding the extent of its impact compared to other factors like drag and chamber pressure.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight the complexity of the relationship between chamber pressure, burn rate, and atmospheric conditions, with participants acknowledging that assumptions about these relationships may vary.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in rocketry, propulsion systems, and the effects of atmospheric conditions on performance may find this discussion relevant.

good_ken
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I have been flying some model rockets powered by commercially available solid propellant engines. I have been flying at an elevation of 2550 above sea level. I am headed to a competition next week and will be flying near sea level.

The air density will change approximately 5% due to the elevation change. Will this air density change affect the burn rate of the propellant the same way it would an air breathing engine (ie more thrust at sea level)?

thanks
 
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What does your intuition tell you?
 
My instinct tells me that the difference in atmospheric pressure won't be significant compared to the chamber pressure, which is what burn rate (thrust) depends on.
 
good_ken said:
My instinct tells me that the difference in atmospheric pressure won't be significant compared to the chamber pressure, which is what burn rate (thrust) depends on.
Well the chamber pressure depends on the burn rate. One is correct that atmospheric pressure is much less than atmospheric pressure.

In solid rockets the fuel and oxidizer are mixed, so oxygen in air has no effect on the combustion process. Once the chemical reaction initiates - it goes.

Rocket performance improves as atmospheric pressure decreases, which is why one will see performance numbers for sea level and low pressure or vacuum of space. Rocket motors perform better in space.

Also, drag increases as atmospheric density increases. At higher altitudes, the same rocket can fly higher (with respect to its starting point) than it would taking off at sea level.

So, at higher altitudes with lower air density, rockets have better motor performance and less drag.
 
Astronuc said:
Well the chamber pressure depends on the burn rate. One is correct that atmospheric pressure is much less than atmospheric pressure.

In solid rockets the fuel and oxidizer are mixed, so oxygen in air has no effect on the combustion process. Once the chemical reaction initiates - it goes.

Rocket performance improves as atmospheric pressure decreases, which is why one will see performance numbers for sea level and low pressure or vacuum of space. Rocket motors perform better in space.

Also, drag increases as atmospheric density increases. At higher altitudes, the same rocket can fly higher (with respect to its starting point) than it would taking off at sea level.

So, at higher altitudes with lower air density, rockets have better motor performance and less drag.

That makes sense. We have calculated a 5% increase in drag by going to sea level, so that is accounted for. It was engine that we didn't have a feel for.
 
Do you know what the chamber pressure is for the solid rocket motor? Anyway, the differential pressure should be insignificant between 2550 ft and sea level, so drag is the biggest factor.
 
Astronuc said:
Rocket performance improves as atmospheric pressure decreases, which is why one will see performance numbers for sea level and low pressure or vacuum of space. Rocket motors perform better in space.
[..]
Also, drag [..]

Really? You mean, even regardless of drag due to increased air density (say, consider some bench-mounted thrust test) higher atmospheric pressure will slightly decrease performance? (If anything, I would have thought chamber pressure and reaction rate would go up..)
 
cesiumfrog said:
Really? You mean, even regardless of drag due to increased air density (say, consider some bench-mounted thrust test) higher atmospheric pressure will slightly decrease performance? (If anything, I would have thought chamber pressure and reaction rate would go up..)
If you look at the thrust for most applications, it is degraded at lower altitudes. Mostly because at lower altitudes the backpressure on the nozzle is greater. The ideal thrust equation is

F = A_t P_1 \sqrt{\frac{2 \gamma^2}{\gamma-1}\left (\frac{2}{\gamma+1}\right)^{\frac{\gamma+1}{\gamma-1}}\left[1-\left(\frac{P_2}{P_1}\right)\right]^{(\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma})} }+(P_2-P_3)A_2

Where
F = Thrust
P_1 = Chamber Pressure
\gamma = Specific Heat Ratio
A_t = Throat Area
P_2 = Pressure at the exit plane of the nozzle
P_3 = Ambient Pressure
A_2 = Exit Area
 
Last edited:
In addition to what FredGarvin wrote, think about -

What causes 'chamber pressure' and what controls the reaction rate.
 

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