Solving a definite integral without integrating

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the definite integral of sin^4(x) over the interval from -π to π without performing direct integration. The context involves the use of an orthonormal basis, specifically {1/√2, cos(2x)}, and the participants are exploring how to express the integral in terms of this basis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss rewriting sin^4(x) in terms of cos(2x) and other basis functions. There are attempts to express the integral as an inner product, with some questioning the validity of their approaches and the assumptions made regarding the orthonormal basis.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the properties of the orthonormal basis and the implications for the integral. Some have offered guidance on how to approach the problem by focusing on the inner product interpretation, while others are still grappling with the correct formulation and calculations.

Contextual Notes

There are constraints regarding the methods allowed, as participants are not permitted to perform direct integration. Additionally, there are discussions about potential typos and misunderstandings regarding the properties of the orthonormal basis and the inner products involved.

  • #31
gabbagabbahey said:
You've already correctly said that \sin^4(x)=\frac{1}{4}-\frac{\cos(2x)}{2}+\frac{\cos^2(2x)}{4}, so now you have

\begin{aligned}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\sin^4(x)dx &=\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{\cos(2x)}{2}+\frac{\cos^2(2x)}{4}\right)dx \\ &= \int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\frac{1}{4}dx-\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\frac{\cos(2x)}{2}dx+\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\frac{\cos^2(2x)}{4}dx\end{aligned}

Now, compare these integrals to the inner products that you know. For example, the first one is 1/2 times the inner product of \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} with itself; which gives you \frac{\pi}{2}...how about the second one?...And the third?

How is the first integral \frac{1}{2}?
 
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  • #32
Dustinsfl said:
How is the first integral \frac{1}{2}?

It isn't.

\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\frac{1}{4}dx=\frac{1}{2}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}\left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\right)\left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\right)dx

It's 1/2 times the inner product of 1/\sqrt{2} with itself.
 
  • #33
\frac{1}{2}\int\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}-\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\int\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}cos(2x)+\frac{1}{4}\int cos(2x)*cos(2x)=\pi*\big[\frac{1}{2}+0+\frac{1}{4}\big]=\frac{3\pi}{4}

I have no idea why the Latex display is all messed up but it is typed in correct.
 
  • #34
You are missing the "dx"s in your integrals, and your integration limits, but other than that it looks fine.
 
  • #35
Dustin, I hope you will take what gabbagabbahey and I have been saying to heart.

gabbagabbahey said:
I understand what you are doing here, but the way you've written it is nonsensical. You've got a grand total of two equal signs in your entire workings; you've got a table without any headings, that looks like a matrix; you've got expressions that are adding integration results to integrands and so on.
I commented on the lack of equal signs much earlier in this thread, and several other points that you didn't acknowledge.

mark44 said:
For starters, sin2(x) \neq (1/2)(1 + cos(2x)) [Note: you did fix this one.]

Second, is there any connection between any of the lines above and the one below it? Is there any connection between what you have here and the problem you're trying to solve?

Third, are you trying to convince us that cos(2x) = 1? (see third line) That's not true.

Fourth, is there any connection between the work above and the integral in your first post?

Fifth, is there any connection between your orthogonal basis and what you have here?

What we're trying to get you to do is to write statements (e.g., equations) that flow logically from what you're given to what you want to show. It took a long while to get you to realize the connection between your basis and the integral - i.e., that you were working with something akin to the dot product. Just as the dot product of orthogonal vectors is zero, the inner product of orthogonal functions is also zero.

If it were just me making comments about things, you might put it down to me picking on you, but gabbagabbahey made similar comments about your work. It's in your best interest to keep these comments in mind.
 

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