Solving the Mystery of the Missing Term in the Compton Effect Formula

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a formula derived from the conservation of momentum and energy in the context of the Compton effect. Participants explore the derivation of the final energy of an electron after a photon collision, focusing on the apparent missing term in the formula and the relationship between energy and momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents two expressions for the final energy of the electron derived from conservation laws, noting a discrepancy in the derived formula.
  • Another participant points out that the energies E and cP are not equal but satisfy a dispersion relation for a particle of mass m_0.
  • A participant questions the relationship E^2 - (m_0*c^2)^2 = (cP)^2, seeking clarification on its validity.
  • It is mentioned that this relationship is fundamental in defining mass in relativity.
  • A later reply indicates that the participant has found clarity on the issue after further research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the missing term in the formula and the relationship between energy and momentum. There is no consensus on the resolution of the discrepancy, and multiple viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential misunderstandings regarding the definitions and relationships in relativistic physics, particularly concerning the dispersion relation and the conservation equations.

simon96c
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Hello everyone, I have a question regarding a formula which can be derived from conservation of momentum and energy in the Compton effect.
From conservation of momentum and energy during the collision of a photon with an electron, it is possible to get two expressions for the final energy E of the electron:

E^2=(Q_0-Q)^2+2(Q_0-Q)m_0*c^2+(m_0*c^2)^2
and
(cP)^2=Q_0^2-2*QQ_0cosΘ+Q^2

where Q and Q_0 are the final and initial energies of the photon and Θ the angle between the momentum vector of the photon before hitting the electron and after.

The problem arises when, to derivate the final formula, the two equations are subtracted and one term seems to go missing, as the book says it is:

2QQ_0(1-cosΘ)-2(Q_0-Q)m_0c^2=0

whereas I have

2QQ_0(1-cosΘ)-(2Q_0-2Q-m_0c^2)m_0c^2=0, so I basically have a "m_0c^2" which should not be there.
Could some explain what I'm missing there?

I'm sure it's something really silly, so thanks in advance for the answers! :)
 
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E and cP are not equal. They satisfy the dispersion relation for a particle of mass m_0 ...
 
I see. In fact, the book does not mention it and I'm realising why.
So, since to get the formula I'm subtracting the two equations and I now that the RHS is zero, does this mean that E^2-(m_0*c^2)^2 = (cP)^2? This would explain why I could not get the correct final formula, but I'm still not completely sure about why E^2-(m_0*c^2)^2 = (cP)^2.
 
simon96c said:
but I'm still not completely sure about why E^2-(m_0*c^2)^2 = (cP)^2.
This is the fundamental dispersion relation for a particle of mass m_0. In fact, it is how we define mass in relativity.
 
I've looked it up and now I think I have understood. Thank you for the answer!
 

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