Sorcerer Summoned in Salem, India - Feb 2004

[zoobyshoe]

I can almost not even believe the last sentence of this story:

The Australian: Indian police call in sorcerer [February 09, 2004]
Address:http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8627060%255E29677,00.html

 

[Monique]

Christians believe in the devil..

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
Christians believe in the devil..

That is true. What does it mean in relation to this story?

 

[Monique]

So these people believe in superstition and black magic..

 

[zoobyshoe]

My point is: why do the authorities allow "rural mobs" to kill anyone for any reason?

 

[Monique]

40/yr in north east India doesn't shock me.. want to know some numbers of Detroit? That is a single city, just downtown area, over 400 a yr.. maybe 50 children per yr by accidental gun fire. I find that more shocking.

 

[Monique]

http://neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

Children and Gun Violence

In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002.

America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
40/yr in north east India doesn't shock me.. want to know some numbers of Detroit? That is a single city, just downtown area, over 400 a yr.. maybe 50 children per yr by accidental gun fire. I find that more shocking.

To the extent it's accidental, and to the extent I know any person responsible who is caught would be prosecuted by law, and given the much greater population density of detroit, I find the killing of suspected witches by mobs in rural India to be more psychologically disturbing to me.

 

[Monique]

You know how many people live in North East India? And who says that these mobs don't get prosecuted?

Accidental, funny. Accidental as in parents keeping guns in drawers, which a kid finds and plays with, killing its brother. Now you say it.. no, that doesn't sound psychologically disturbing to me either..

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
You know how many people live in North East India?

No. The report says "rural". This leads me to believe the population density of the "rural" areas under discussion is less than what you'd find in "urban" detroit.

And who says that these mobs don't get prosecuted?

Yes, that was a conclusion I jumped to based on the fact it seems to happen so much. It could well be the authorities are trying to crack down, in which case I wouldn't find it so psychologically disturbing.

Accidental, funny. Accidental as in parents keeping guns in drawers, which a kid finds and plays with, killing its brother. Now you say it.. no, that doesn't sound psychologically disturbing to me either..

"Accidental" was your word, dear. Don't become sarcastic with me for repeating it.

Likewise don't twist the fact that I find one horror more psychologically disturbing than another into the unwarranted imlpication I don't also find the other horror disturbing.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe

No. The report says "rural". This leads me to believe the population density of the "rural" areas under discussion is less than what you'd find in "urban" detroit.

Population of Detroit: 1 million; Population India, well, look at the map http://www.mapsofindia.com/census2001/population/population-india.htm

"Accidental" was your word, dear. Don't become sarcastic with me for repeating it.

Well, I'd be happy to apologize. With accidental I meant 'not murder', but not without guilt. I took your accidental as 'an accident', my mistake.

I just found this report not that surprising. Have you ever heard of the practice where a wife is burned alive after her husband dies? That strikes me with more horror :S Or where it is legal for a male to mutilate his wife if he suspects adultery (cutting out her eyes, the nose, ears).

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
Population of Detroit: 1 million; Population India, well, look at the map http://www.mapsofindia.com/census2001/population/population-india.htm

This map doesn't clear up the issue of population density, which is different than population. My impression of the population density of "rural" India comes from two programs I saw about how the rural Indians interact with wild elephants who roam free in their areas.

From the fact there is enough unpopulated area to support wild elephants to begin with you know that these parts of India have a vastly lower population density than urban detroit.

One program pointed out, though, that this is changing. The rice farms have spread out to the point where wild elephants have completely lost any fear of humans and are eating the crops at will. The Indians do what they can to drive them away with torches and trying to lead them away with tamed elephants, but the problem persist.

I do not know any exact figures but I am willing to bet the number of people per square mile is less in these farming villages than in urban detroit.

Well, I'd be happy to apologize. With accidental I meant 'not murder', but not without guilt. I took your accidental as 'an accident', my mistake.

OK. No worries.

I just found this report not that surprising. Have you ever heard of the practice where a wife is burned alive after her husband dies?

No. In this century?

That strikes me with more horror :S Or where it is legal for a male to mutilate his wife if he suspects adultery (cutting out her eyes, the nose, ears).

Legally? No.

I did see a show about a now famous case in India where a man threw acid on his wifes face. He is now being prosecuted. This practise hasn't been legal for a long time. The main problem with stopping it has been that the women become too terrified to prosecute. Many people have rallied behind this one woman who finally did, and hope she will serve as an example to encourage other grossly abused women to get the law to work on these destructive men. They gave the figure of about 350 such cases occurring per year.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
This map doesn't clear up the issue of population density, which is different than population.

But density is not the issue here. It is 40 cases each year, and my point is that northeast India is a really vast terrain with lots of people living in it. I don't know either how many live in cities and how many rurally, or how that is even defined :S

Did you also see that female, from the arabian world I believe, she came to the US to get a nose, ears and eyes. Her husband thought she was seeing someone else, and it is in the honor of the man to make her unattractive to the other sex.

I don't think the wife burning is taking place anymore, but it used to be a practice not too long ago. A few years ago I heard of one case that came to the attention of the media.

 

[LURCH]

Originally posted by Monique
Have you ever heard of the practice where a wife is burned alive after her husband dies?

I've also heard of a practise called "bride-burning", wherein the familly of a recent groom will demand more dowery than was originally agreed upon, and if they don't get it, the bride is dowsed with gassoline and ignited. Nevermind waiting for the husband to die, when you can kill the wife right away and send the husband out for another victim er, bride that is, and collect another dowery. This too was a practise in India, I believe, and largely ignored by the authorities, possibly because it has been going on for so long.

When a practice is long-standing and widespread within a culture, it is possible for people of that culture to simply not see it. Trajic, but not uncommon.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
But density is not the issue here. It is 40 cases each year, and my point is that northeast India is a really vast terrain with lots of people living in it. I don't know either how many live in cities and how many rurally, or how that is even defined :S

The population density matters whenever you want to get statisical. But in this case, the fact neither of us has any precise figures for "rural" India, nor a good idea for how to define "rural" there's no particular point in following that train of thought.

Did you also see that female, from the arabian world I believe, she came to the US to get a nose, ears and eyes. Her husband thought she was seeing someone else, and it is in the honor of the man to make her unattractive to the other sex.

I did not hear about this. I did read that in some Arabic country a woman can be beheaded for being unfaithful to her husband. The Afganistan Taliban was quite cruel and oppressive to women, and I was actually more happy when we knocked them out of power for that reason, even more than because they were shielding Bin Laden. Things are still bad for women there because of the inertia of social customs, but now there is no official relgio-governmental support for this kind of thing.

I don't think the wife burning is taking place anymore, but it used to be a practice not too long ago. A few years ago I heard of one case that came to the attention of the media.

Sick manifestation of out of control jealousy.