Space Stuff and Launch Info

AI Thread Summary
The discussion highlights the ongoing advancements and events in the aerospace sector, including the upcoming SpaceX Dragon launch and its significance for cargo delivery to the ISS. Participants share links to various articles detailing recent missions, such as NASA's Juno spacecraft studying Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the ExoMars mission's progress. There is also a focus on the collaboration between government and private sectors in space exploration, emphasizing the potential for technological advancements. Additionally, the conversation touches on intriguing phenomena like the WorldView-2 satellite's debris event and the implications of quantum communication technology demonstrated by China's Quantum Science Satellite. Overall, the thread serves as a hub for sharing and discussing significant aerospace developments.
  • #151
mfb said:
Blah blah blah.
They also misunderstand how axioms are used in mathematics. It doesn't make sense to ask "is an axiom true?" - if you can ask that, it is not an axiom any more, it is a theorem that gets proved based on axioms.
You know, in light of your post it seems likely that they choose the name "Axiom" as a marketing or commercial angle rather than a math concept, the author of the article (Jason-Davis) may have seized on the math aspect to tie his story together with a twist. For all I know they could have named their Space station after the ship in Disney's Wall-E. :wink: (Thanks for the introduction to axioms, seems almost a philosophical concept on the surface).
 
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  • #152
mfb said:
The return to flight (but from Vandenberg) is still scheduled for Sunday.
At least this point has been reached regarding the launch.
http://spaceflight101.com/falcon-9-iridium-flight-1-static-fire/
SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket fired up its nine first stage engines on Thursday in a critical Static Fire Test carried out at Vandenberg Air Force Base.

Then of course there's this.
http://spacenews.com/nasa-selects-x-ray-astronomy-mission/
GRAPEVINE, Texas - NASA has selected an X-ray astronomy spacecraft to study black holes and other astronomical phenomena as the next flight in a program of small astrophysics missions, the agency announced Jan. 3.
 
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  • #153
The launch slipped to Monday, but with the static fire done it looks promising. Now they have to put the payload on top of the rocket.
The drone ship is on the way.
FAA approval seems to be not done, but I guess they expect it by Friday.
 
  • #154
https://twitter.com/Pat_DefDaily/status/817414001386733568 .

Everything ready for a launch on Monday.
 
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  • #155
More "Space Junk"? nearly even odds.

http://spaceflight101.com/close-orbital-encounter-january-7-2017/
"The JSpOC has identified a close approach between two non-maneuverable satellites in a sun-synchronous orbit (approximately 800km altitude) with a time of closest approach at 21:53:00 UTC on 7 January 2017,"the warning said. "The probability of collision has been predicted as high as 44%."
 
  • #156
The game is rained out until at least the 14th. :frown:
http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/01/0...ipped-to-avoid-stormy-weather-range-conflict/
"Forecasters predict a rainy, breezy week along California’s Central Coast, and the poor weather will keep SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket grounded until at least Jan. 14, officials said Sunday".

Regarding this piece, it would be very nice if detectable mergers were common. (Seems like there shouldn't be shortage of them over the life of the universe)
http://www.astrowatch.net/2017/01/ligo-expected-to-detect-more-binary.html
"We began LIGO’s second observing run (called "O2") on November 30, 2016. O2 is planned to continue for approximately six months until the late spring or early summer of 2017. After it ends, we will enter another period of detector commissioning where we will work to improve the Hanford and Livingston detectors’ sensitivities through the end of 2017. It’s also possible that the Virgo interferometer (located near Pisa, Italy) will come online and join LIGO sometime in the next few months, which will bring an added capability to our ability to detect and locate gravitational wave sources," David Reitze of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) told Astrowatch.net.
 
  • #157
1oldman2 said:
More "Space Junk"? nearly even odds.
We got lucky.

44% collision risks means they could predict the orbit at least with meter- and millisecond-sized accuracy a day ahead - quite impressive.

Based on the previous run, LIGO should detect a few more events in this run: It is a bit more sensitive now, and the run is longer. Adding Virgo would improve the sensitivity a lot.
 
  • #158
mfb said:
We got lucky.
Very lucky, I don't think the loss of the equipment would have been that big of a deal overall, the debris field on the other hand would add to a very real issue that is going to need dealt with sooner rather than later. I noticed Japan recently launched an experimental debris removal mission, I would imagine about the time popular orbits are too cluttered to be usable, the commercial field of "Orbital Cleanup" will become big business. (the CubeSats etc. in LEO tend to not be much of a long term problem, however the craft in the 500 to 800 km orbits can take decades to reenter and their debris fields can be rather extensive from what I read).

mfb said:
44% collision risks means they could predict the orbit at least with meter- and millisecond-sized accuracy a day ahead - quite impressive.
True, that's some impressive math. I looked into it a bit and came across this.
A little dated but this is interesting reading on the subject. (I love a creative acronym).
http://celestrak.com/SOCRATES/AIAA-03-548.pdf
http://celestrak.com/SOCRATES/

From, http://spaceflight101.com/close-orbital-encounter-january-7-2017/
"Due to errors in orbit determination and external influences on a satellite’s orbit, it can not be predicted with absolute certainty that the satellites will indeed collide. A 44% probability is considered very high - almost even odds of a collision taking place. Satellite operators typically track conjunctions starting at a 1/1000 probability of collision".
mfb said:
Based on the previous run, LIGO should detect a few more events in this run: It is a bit more sensitive now, and the run is longer. Adding Virgo would improve the sensitivity a lot.
:thumbup: I believe the Livingston detector began "O2" with a 25% increase in sensitivity (I need to confirm this). Next upgrade is scheduled for Hanford and Virgo is new to me, any idea if it will feature upgrades or improvements based on the current observatories ?.Here is an excellent article on the Lucy/Psyche mission, it appears the Psyche aspect is scheduled for a nominal observation period of one year, not unlike the Ceres mission. (If asteroid Psyche lives up to it's expectations it would be one of the best "Nuggets" in the solar system to an outfit such as Space Resources).
psyche.PNG


http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/van-kane/20170109-lucy-and-psyche-asteroid-missions.html
"Last week, Santa in the guise of NASA managers brought the solar system small bodies science community a sack full of belated Christmas presents. The Venus science community was unfortunately left with no presents under the tree".In the world of smaller commercial launch systems, the Electron has been scheduled for a test flight in the first half of 2017. Originally set for late December of 2016, this will be worth watching, very cool engineering. The launch site is another huge advantage, apparently the location is prime for rapid turn around with up to one launch per week.

I wish the writer wouldn't use the phrase "battery-powered" Rocket, I think "Hybrid" would be more appropriate.
http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/electron/

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11432396

This is a new startup I hadn't heard of, I think "Reusable" is going to be very popular in the future.
http://spacenews.com/spains-gmv-takes-a-stake-in-pld-spaces-reusable-rocket-quest/

Then of course this dovetails nicely with the subject, not exactly commercial but the technology is relevant.
http://spaceflight101.com/ss-520-4-smallest-orbital-rocket-set-for-launch/
"Japan plans to launch the smallest orbital space launch vehicle ever flown on Tuesday, lifting into orbit a tiny satellite of only 3 Kilograms. The launch of the SS-520-4 modified sounding rocket is planned at 23:48 UTC from the Uchinoura Space Center and will carry into orbit the TRICOM-1 CubeSat, dedicated to Earth-imaging and store-and-forward communications".
 
  • #159
1oldman2 said:
:thumbup: I believe the Livingston detector began "O2" with a 25% increase in sensitivity (I need to confirm this). Next upgrade is scheduled for Hanford and Virgo is new to me, any idea if it will feature upgrades or improvements based on the current observatories ?.
25% increase in sensitivity is a factor 2 (1.253) in event rate. An additional factor 2 from the longer observation time and the best estimate is 8 observed black hole mergers. Plus whatever the neutron star merger search will find.

This is a new startup I hadn't heard of, I think "Reusable" is going to be very popular in the future.
I'm quite sure it will become the default. "Reusable rockets" will be like "reusable airplanes". Technically a correct description, but everyone just says "airplane" and assumes it can fly more than once.

Then of course this dovetails nicely with the subject, not exactly commercial but the technology is relevant.
http://spaceflight101.com/ss-520-4-smallest-orbital-rocket-set-for-launch/
"Japan plans to launch the smallest orbital space launch vehicle ever flown on Tuesday, lifting into orbit a tiny satellite of only 3 Kilograms. The launch of the SS-520-4 modified sounding rocket is planned at 23:48 UTC from the Uchinoura Space Center and will carry into orbit the TRICOM-1 CubeSat, dedicated to Earth-imaging and store-and-forward communications".
This is a weird rocket. It makes sense, but it is quite unusual.
Smaller rockets have trouble with atmospheric drag - it scales with the area, not with the mass of the rocket. They chose solid fuel for the first stage - it gives a high acceleration to get through the atmosphere quickly and with a very steep flight profile. The downside: You end up with a low horizontal velocity, and the first stage burns out when the rocket is quite low. Therefore, it cruises for a while until the rocket reaches a reasonable perigee height. There, the second stage ignites, solid fuel like the first stage. It is spin-stabilized to save mass (no active attitude control) - this spin is also used by the third stage later. The third stage uses solid fuel as well.

You cannot throttle or stop a solid rocket motor. Once it is ignited, it will burn at full thrust until it is empty. Spin-stabilization means no active control while the engines are burning. The only time where the rocket can be controlled is between the first and second stage, and the precise time of the ignition. The rocket will probably have a poor precision.

Overall, that flight profile needs larger accelerations and slightly more delta_v than regular rocket launches, but it leads to a very small rocket.
 
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  • #160
http://www.njit.edu/news/2013/2013-262.php
"Researchers at NJIT’s Big Bear Solar Observatory (BBSO) in Big Bear, CA have obtained new and remarkably detailed photos of the Sun with the New Solar Telescope (NST). The photographs reveal never-before-seen details of solar magnetism revealed in photospheric and chromospheric features".

*See video of "real Alien craft" as it lands on moon!* :smile:
 
  • #161
Things look good for Saturday morning on the west coast.
http://spaceflight101.com/falcon-9-stands-ready-for-return-to-flight-2/


Japan is planning another launch attempt of the SS-520-4 "Demonstrator" for small commercial payloads on the 14th, not sure of the window time.

It appears NASA's ARM may face "amputation".
http://spacenews.com/asteroid-missions-face-delays-and-restructuring/
WASHINGTON - NASA is delaying contracts and other awards planned for its Asteroid Redirect Mission (ARM) early this year by a few months, citing uncertainty about the agency’s budget.

Roscosmos is making progress with December 1st Soyuz Anomaly.
http://spacenews.com/engine-failure-destroyed-progress-launch-russia-says/
Roscosmos said Wednesday the leading cause for the Dec. 1 launch failure was foreign particles that got into the Soyuz rocket’s engine, causing a fire and explosion that ripped apart the oxidizer tank.
 
  • #162
1oldman2 said:
Things look good for Saturday morning on the west coast.
:thumbup:
 
  • #163
And liftoff...

And the first stage has landed on the drone ship.

The second stage has cut off, it will ignite again to boost the satellites to their target orbit in about 45 minutes.

Edit: Satellites are getting deployed.
 
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  • #164
Impressive "comeback mission" :smile:
http://spaceflight101.com/falcon-9-iridium-flight-1-launch-success/
"SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket made an impressive Return to Flight on Saturday, blasting off from California and earning double check-marks by achieving a flawless delivery of ten Iridium-NEXT communications satellites and successfully landing the rocket’s first stage at sea for the first time after a West Coast launch".

The next launch is set for January 26, at LC-39A KSC the payload being EchoStar 23.

JAXA's SS-520-4 launch looks good,(winds are currently moderate at the launch site, however the forecast looks favorable). The burn time on these solid motors deserves notice, these suckers are fast. (I wonder what the max G's are on a flight like this ?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Series_(rocket_family)
"Launch is scheduled to occur during a 16 minutes window opening at 23:33 UTC on 14 January 2017 (08:33 JST on 15 January). For more information, please see 2017 in spaceflight and the spaceflight portal".
ss launch timeline.PNG
 
  • #165
1oldman2 said:
:thumbup:
As I mentioned on my FB page; "That, was incredible."

:thumbup:
 
  • #166
1oldman2 said:
(I wonder what the max G's are on a flight like this ?)
The third stage accelerates by 4500 m/s in 25.6 seconds, for an average acceleration of 176 m/s2 or 17.9 g.

As it is a solid rocket engine, its Isp is probably below 300s. Assuming 300s, the third stage has a mass ratio of 4.6. Assuming a constant thrust, the average acceleration is 0.42 times the final acceleration. The final acceleration is 42 g.
A worse Isp would lead to a larger mass fraction, increasing the final acceleration even more.

Solid-fuel rockets can have ridiculous accelerations. Sprint reached 100 g with a small nuclear warhead on top, the experimental HIBEX reached 400 g according to this website. At this acceleration, the rocket travels at 90 m/s after a single meter, and reaches the speed of sound after 75 milliseconds and 14 meter, just three times its length. Well, in actual use the initial acceleration is a bit lower.
 
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  • #167
mfb said:
Solid-fuel rockets can have ridiculous accelerations. Sprint reached 100 g with a small nuclear warhead on top
Wow! 0 to Mach 10 in 5 seconds... as if that's not enough G's, "Sprint was also constructed to withstand shocks up to 25,000Gs which meant it could handle nearby nuclear explosions and their resulting blast (how hardened it was to EMP and radiation is unknown)".

http://spaceflight101.com/ss-520-4-rocket-launches-on-experimental-mission/
"SS-520-4 lifted off from the Uchinoura Space Center in Japan’s Kagoshima prefecture at 8:33 a.m. local time on Sunday, 23:33 UTC on Saturday on a one-off demonstration mission, aiming to put the TRICOM-1 CubeSat into an elliptical orbit around Earth. The small rocket quickly vanished from view after an on-time blastoff with a thrust eclipsing the rocket’s initial mass by a factor of seven".
 
  • #168
Looks like we have to wait until tomorrow to see if the launch was successful.

Can't expect a live video when the transmission system would be half the payload mass ;).
 
  • #169
mfb said:
Looks like we have to wait until tomorrow to see if the launch was successful.
Update...
http://spaceflight101.com/ss-520-4-rocket-launches-on-experimental-mission/
"The rocket’s climb to orbit was expected to take seven and a half minutes, however, all telemetry from the ascending launch vehicle was lost after the first stage had finished its 31-second burn. Tracking data showed debris of the rocket falling into the Pacific Ocean in a closed zone south-east of the launch site". :sorry:

At least 50% of today's launches went according to plan.
 
  • #170
To give some idea of the scale...

comment_4WehOMrLe79UTxLYPQVm4ixdOJLHFdfH.jpg
 
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  • #171
Any word on its condition for reuse ?, doesn't appear to be as fried as some of the others they have landed.
 
  • #172
They'll probably test fire it soon, as they did with the other cores.

SpaceX plans to introduce a new booster version soon, beyond showing that it is possible (currently scheduled for February) it is unclear how often they will re-fly the older boosters. Re-using the newer versions will be easier. Source
 
  • #173
It appears we may be rethinking the history of our Solar system. :smile:
http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/art...allenge-our-understanding-of-the-solar-system
Researchers have discovered minerals from 43 meteorites that landed on Earth 470 million years ago. More than half of the mineral grains are from meteorites completely unknown or very rare in today’s meteorite flow. These findings mean that we will probably need to revise our current understanding of the history and development of the solar system.
 
  • #174
This is a good example of SpaceX's resilience.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/congressional-investigators-warn-of-spacex-rocket-defects-1486067874
"Congressional investigators are raising new safety concerns about Space Exploration Technologies Corp.’s plans for future manned launches, citing persistent cracking of vital propulsion-system components, according to government and industry officials familiar with the details."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-spacex-idUSKBN15H307
SpaceX's final version of the Falcon 9 rocket, which Elon Musk aims to launch before the end of the year, will fix a potential problem with cracks in its turbopumps, the company said on Thursday. Its statement followed a report that the U.S. Government Accountability Office will flag turbine wheel cracks in the rocket's turbopumps as a safety issue. NASA, the U.S. space agency, and the Air Force are among SpaceX's customers.https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/noaas-goes-16-exis-instrument-observes-solar-flares
On January 21, 2017, the GOES-16 Extreme Ultraviolet and X-Ray Irradiance Sensors (EXIS) observed solar flares.
x2flare.jpeg
 
  • #175
While reading about this I was surprised to learn there is such a thing as "speed of sound in interstellar space" I should of filed this in T.I.L. :smile:
From, http://www.nro.nao.ac.jp/en/news/2017/0116-yamada-e.html
"During the survey, the team found a compact molecular cloud with enigmatic motion. This cloud, named the "Bullet," has a speed of more than 100 km/s, which exceeds the speed of sound in interstellar space by more than two orders of magnitude. In addition, this cloud, with the size of two light-years, moves backward against the rotation of the Milky Way Galaxy."
 
  • #176
I wasn't aware of this aspect of the O-rex mission. Its kind of like getting to see the blind spot in your rear view mirror for the first time. It will be interesting to see what gets discovered.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/osiris-rex-begins-earth-trojan-asteroid-search
"A NASA spacecraft begins its search Thursday for an enigmatic class of near-Earth objects known as Earth-Trojan asteroids. OSIRIS-REx, currently on a two-year outbound journey to the asteroid Bennu, will spend almost two weeks searching for evidence of these small bodies.

The search commences today and continues through Feb. 20. On each observation day, the spacecraft ’s MapCam camera will take 135 survey images that will be processed and examined by the mission’s imaging scientists at the University of Arizona, Tucson. The study plan also includes opportunities for MapCam to image Jupiter, several galaxies, and the main belt asteroids 55 Pandora, 47 Aglaja and 12 Victoria."
 
  • #177
The latest F-9 static fire test is being Livestreamed.
http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/10/pad-39a-mission-status-center/

Searching for GW's is going to be in the news for some time.
https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/News/Uni-Research/Ancient-Signals-From-the-Early-Universe.html
http://www.nature.com/news/ligo-s-u...ve-hunt-1.21437?WT.mc_id=SFB_NNEWS_1508_RHBox
"With a third machine, LIGO can also detect more events, adds theoretical physicist B. S. Sathyaprakash, a senior LIGO researcher at Pennsylvania State University in University Park. Gravitational-wave signals are picked out from background noise, and a small blip in only one interferometer is almost certainly just that; simultaneous blips in two interferometers may still be a fluke.But blips in three machines at once significantly raise the odds that an actual ripple went by. Because signals from more-distant sources are fainter, Sathyaprakash estimates that Virgo might extend LIGO’s reach by up to 12%, which would mean monitoring 40% more of the volume of the Universe."
(https://www.lisamission.org/proposal/LISA.pdf)
http://gwcenter.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/en/
Followed by the proposed, http://tamago.mtk.nao.ac.jp/spacetime/decigo_e.html
DECIGO stands for DECi-hertz Interferometer Gravitational wave Observatory. It is a gravitational wave antenna in space operating in the 0.1 - 10 Hz frequency band. We propose DECIGO as the Japanese detector to be built after the ground-based detector LCGT.
http://www.natureasia.com/en/nindia/article/10.1038/nindia.2016.20
http://www.geo600.org/
http://www.aei.mpg.de/18498/03_Einstein_Telescope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Interferometer_Space_Antenna#cite_note-2017proposal-1
http://sci.esa.int/lisa-pathfinder/58633-lisa-pathfinder-s-pioneering-mission-continues/
"The future observatory will detect gravitational waves with frequencies from 1 Hz down to 0.1 mHz. These are about a hundred to a million times lower than the frequencies of waves that can be measured with ground-based experiments like the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), which obtained the first direct detection of gravitational waves in September 2015."

Cool links and graphics for this years missions. :smile:
http://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/space-missions/whatsup.html

A few links on the 2020 rover, hopefully it stays on schedule for the launch window.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/scientists-shortlist-three-landing-sites-for-mars-2020
http://spacenews.com/technical-risks-threaten-to-delay-mars-2020-mission/
"WASHINGTON - A report released Jan. 30 by NASA’s Office of Inspector General (OIG) identified several issues with the agency’s Mars 2020 rover mission that could delay its launch."
http://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/timeline/prelaunch/landing-site-selection/
 
  • #178
The Falcon 9 rocket remains vertical at pad 39A as SpaceX gears up for today's static fire attempt, now set for no earlier than 4:10 p.m. EST (2110 GMT).
That is in 8 minutes!

Good to see that Virgo is getting ready.
 
  • #179
mfb said:
That is in 8 minutes!
Count is climbing fast hopefully soon.
 
  • #180
F-9 LiveStream, :smile:
http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/10/pad-39a-mission-status-center/

http://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-ships-first-electron-rocket-to-launch-site/ :thumbup:
"Beck said that the first rocket’s name, "It’s a Test," is indicative of the company’s mindset toward the debut launch as being an extension of the research and development for Electron before it formally enters service."

http://spaceflight101.com/nasa-to-study-adding-crew-to-debut-flight-of-sls-and-orion/
"This information was confirmed on Wednesday in a memo from Acting NASA Administrator Robert Lightfoot sent out to NASA workforce and comes as the result of a request by the NASA transition team under the new Trump administration.

Additional pressure emerged due to the ongoing "old space vs. new space" debate pushing focus on commercial spaceflight developments that could result in NASA losing additional funding unless the agency commits to delivering results on a timeline matching its commercial counterparts."http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/15/weather-could-stand-in-way-of-falcon-9-launch-saturday/
Rainy weather expected across Central Florida this weekend has a 50-50 chance of preventing the launch of a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket Saturday on a resupply mission to the International Space Station, U.S. Air Force forecasters said Wednesday.http://spacenews.com/spacex-delays-next-iridium-launch-two-months/
WASHINGTON - Iridium Communications says SpaceX has pushed back the launch of its second batch of next-generation satellites from mid-April to mid-June, a move that shifts the expected completion date for Iridium Next to the middle of 2018.

In a Feb. 15 statement, Iridium said the two-monthly launch delay is "due to a backlog in SpaceX’s launch manifest as a result of last year’s September 1st anomaly."
 
  • #181
1oldman2 said:
http://spaceflight101.com/nasa-to-study-adding-crew-to-debut-flight-of-sls-and-orion/
"This information was confirmed on Wednesday in a memo from Acting NASA Administrator Robert Lightfoot sent out to NASA workforce and comes as the result of a request by the NASA transition team under the new Trump administration.
Wait, what? The idea of a launch 2018 is unrealistic already, and they will have to rush if they want to make that. It will be a completely new rocket with a new capsule - and now they want to launch that with a crew? First launches can go wrong. If they go wrong unmanned, they will learn from the mistakes and launch another rocket a year later. If the maiden flight goes wrong and people die, I can't see how the project would recover from that. To make it worse: Where is the point? Sending astronauts to LEO will be done cheaper by the commercial crew program. Manned SLS/Orion missions have some small niche applications like going to Moon orbit or to L1/L2 with humans. But that will certainly not happen in 2018. Making a manned flight in 2018 would have no interesting result: You cannot test the full potential of going elsewhere, and you cannot do interesting science either.

You can shift the maiden flight to 2021, of course. But that is just the current schedule without the earlier unmanned test, which doesn't make sense either.
 
  • #182
mfb said:
I guess this is related to Trump's idea of humans back on Moon in 2020 - no sense of reality.
Yup, your seeing pure politics at work here.
For the proposed "study" to recommend a manned first launch... I just can't imagine the convoluted thinking that it would worthy of the schedule benefits, (I don't see any real overall benefit other than buying some time while the program figures out where it stands over the next four years). Considering the recent recommendations regarding Fueling concerns on upcoming manned F-9 missions and NASA's experiences with Apollo 1 and a couple of Shuttle misadventures, they may "study" the hell out of something but they aren't likely to "bet max" on the maiden flight.

Von Braun, while developing the Sat-V wanted to test launch by adding one ballasted stage at a time to the stack for fault analyses if something went boom, (not a bad plan at all) NASA decided to test all at once,(citing schedule). Even with the timeline and all, it was over two years between first launch and first manned flight.

I just (pardon the pun) hope "Orion" doesn't become another "constellation".
 
  • #183
Well it looks like we may as well get used to the idea of 53 day orbits, (that's okay, I have more patience than I have time). I'm looking forward to the Peer reviewed releases coming up, any bets on the Metallic Hydrogen theory?.
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-juno-mission-to-remain-in-current-orbit-at-jupiter
"NASA’s Juno mission to Jupiter, which has been in orbit around the gas giant since July 4, 2016, will remain in its current 53-day orbit for the remainder of the mission. This will allow Juno to accomplish its science goals, while avoiding the risk of a previously-planned engine firing that would have reduced the spacecraft ’s orbital period to 14 days.

The Juno science team continues to analyze returns from previous flybys. Revelations include that Jupiter's magnetic fields and aurora are bigger and more powerful than originally thought and that the belts and zones that give the gas giant’s cloud top its distinctive look extend deep into the planet’s interior. Peer-reviewed papers with more in-depth science results from Juno’s first three flybys are expected to be published within the next few months. In addition, the mission's JunoCam - the first interplanetary outreach camera - is now being guided with assistance from the public. People can participate by voting on which features on Jupiter should be imaged during each flyby."

Here is a P-4 shot of the south pole from about 100,000 km's
juno-jupitersp.png


Then there's this, pretty cool. :smile:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/an-ice-worldwith-an-ocean
"On Feb. 17, 2005, NASA’s Cassini spacecraft was making the first-ever close pass over Saturn’s moon Enceladus as it worked through its detailed survey of the planet’s icy satellites. Exciting, to be sure, just for the thrill of exploration. But then Cassini’s magnetometer instrument noticed something odd."
main_pia11688.jpg


Enceladus and Saturns rings.jpg



As of 11:50 on 02/17, "SpaceX chief executive Elon Musk says engineers are investigating a "very small" leak in the Falcon 9 rocket's upper stage."
"If ok, will launch tomorrow," he tweeted."

http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/1...-spacexs-10th-space-station-resupply-mission/
"The illustrated timeline below outlines the launch sequence for the Falcon 9 flight with the Dragon spacecraft . It does not include times for the experimental descent and landing attempt of the first stage booster at Landing Zone 1, a former Atlas missile launch facility about 9 miles (15 kilometers) south of pad 39A."

This could be interesting.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38937141
"There is optimism that observations to be conducted during 5-14 April could finally deliver the long-sought prize."

http://eventhorizontelescope.org/index.html
"This new 1.3 mm VLBI detection confirms that short-wavelength VLBI of Sgr A* can and will be used to directly probe the event horizon of this black hole candidate: in short, Sgr A* is the right object, VLBI is the right technique, and this decade is the right time."
 
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  • #184
Glad to see that the first SpaceX launch from pad 39A went well. Dragon is in orbit and Falcon first stage successfully landed back on land. View of landing from the camera on the first stage was amazing!
 
  • #185
Here's one side of the "crewed first mission" argument for Orion.
http://spacenews.com/expert-panel-supports-study-to-accelerate-first-crewed-sls-mission/
"Former astronaut Tom Stafford compared the proposal to the first flight of the space shuttle, which also carried a crew, a decision he said he was involved with while an astronaut in the early 1970s. He noted that many of the elements of the SLS, including its engines and solid rocket boosters, previously flown on the shuttle or other vehicles and thus are fairly well known."

An excellent article on the orbit decision.
http://spaceflight101.com/juno-to-remain-in-elongated-capture-orbit/

http://www.icrar.org/planet_bernard/
http://www.astrowatch.net/2017/02/minor-planet-named-bernard.html
"A minor planet in the Solar System will officially be known as Bernardbowen after Australian citizen science project theSkyNet won a competition to name the celestial body. The minor planet was named by the International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research (ICRAR) in honour of their founding chairman Dr Bernard Bowen.

Bernardbowen was one of 17 minor planets to be christened today. Other newly named minor planets include Kagura, after a traditional Shinto theatrical dance, and Mehdia, which is equivalent to the Arabic word for gift."
http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/ECS/MPCArchive/2017/MPC_20170212.pdf
 
  • #186
I think the proposal for manned 1st flight is a desperate attempt to forestall SpaceX making SLS obsolete.
 
  • #187
1oldman2 said:
Former astronaut Tom Stafford compared the proposal to the first flight of the space shuttle, which also carried a crew
It carried a crew because it needed one to land the Shuttle.

There is nothing wrong with making a study, as long as it is open for both results. Or all three, if we consider a faster second manned launch as separate option.
nikkkom said:
I think the proposal for manned 1st flight is a desperate attempt to forestall SpaceX making SLS obsolete.
According to the article, they expect the launch "2019 or 2020", which means 2020 or maybe later. Even if the commercial crew programs have some more delays they are probably faster. SLS will have a larger payload, it can do missions no existing rocket can do.
 
  • #188
I don't believe competition between SLS and F-Heavy will be much of an issue, either one has niche abilities that the other doesn't share.
A couple of years old but this is a fair comparison of the two systems.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2737/1

A useful info-graphic on SLS, note the time difference on a Europa mission.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NAC-July2014-Hill-Creech-Final.pdf

More Mars business coming up.
http://h2m.exploremars.org/

This is one cool Rocket, can't wait to see how "It's a test" performs.
http://spaceflight101.com/rocket-labs-electron-enters-first-launch-campaign/
"Electron’s first mission has been aptly named "It’s a Test" by the Rocket Lab workforce. "We put it out to our team to name the vehicle," said Beck. "We wanted to acknowledge the intensive research and development Electron has undergone and that continues with these test flights."

Rutherford is the first electric-pump fed engine to reach the launch pad, also the first Kerosene/Liquid Oxygen engine to use 3D printing for all primary components. Two brushless DC motors, each the size of a soda can, drive the engine’s turbomachinery, spinning at up to 40,000RPM. Thirteen batteries installed on the rocket’s first stage deliver over 1 Megawatt of power during just over two and a half minutes of first stage operation, relying on advanced Li-Polymer battery technology."

Another perfectly good mass UFO sighting ruined. :wink:
http://spaceflight101.com/falcon-9-deorbit-burn-seen-over-iran-kuwait/

http://spacenews.com/nasa-authorization-bill-calls-for-orion-iss-study/
"WASHINGTON - A NASA authorization bill passed by the Senate Feb. 17 would require NASA to reexamine the feasibility of using the Orion spacecraft to transport crews to and from the International Space Station.

Flying Orion to ISS would involve a number of challenges, including adapting it to an unspecified alternative launch vehicle. The first uncrewed Orion test flight, Exploration Flight Test 1 in 2014, launched on a Delta 4 Heavy, but there are no plans to human-rate that vehicle. Orion is currently not designed to carry a crew until its second launch on the SLS, no earlier than 2021, although NASA announced last week it is studying putting a crew on the first SLS launch, scheduled for late 2018. That mission would likely to slip to 2019 or 2020 if NASA does decide to fly that mission with astronauts on board."
 
  • #189
mfb said:
SLS will have a larger payload, it can do missions no existing rocket can do.

No one has a mission even in planning stages which requires SLS capabilities. Thus: moot right now.

At the glacial speed NASA designs large missions, by the time such mission would be approved and start bending metal, SpaceX is likely to have a much bigger rocket.
 
  • #190
NASA press conference tomorrow, probably some exoplanet atmosphere(s).

nikkkom said:
No one has a mission even in planning stages which requires SLS capabilities.
The Europa multiple-flyby mission would need much longer to reach Jupiter with other rockets.
The asteroid redirect mission would be problematic without SLS.
Mars return would be possible with SLS, but challenging to impossible with single rocket launches of other rockets.
A manned mission to fix/upgrade JWST (if necessary) would be possible with SLS but not with existing or near-future rockets.
nikkkom said:
SpaceX is likely to have a much bigger rocket.
Only if the ITS works out, or if they start a completely new project. Falcon Heavy will be limited to ~50 tons to LEO.
ITS is a daring concept. If it works as they imagine, it will start a new era of spaceflight. But systems rarely work as well as they are first envisioned. It could get more expensive, less reliable, ... as imagined.
 
  • #191
1oldman2 said:
Another perfectly good mass UFO sighting ruined. :wink:"
Well it was unidentified until somebody identified it.
can never be sure with them extraterrestrials.
 
  • #192
mfb said:
The Europa multiple-flyby mission would need much longer to reach Jupiter with other rockets.
That mission just entered Design Phase, I see its scheduled for launch on the Block 1B, SLS. :thumbup:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/nasas-europa-flyby-mission-moves-into-design-phase
"On Feb. 15, NASA's Europa multiple-flyby mission successfully completed its Key Decision Point-B review. This NASA decision permits the mission to move forward into its preliminary design phase, known as "Phase B," beginning on Feb. 27."
 
  • #193
mfb said:
The Europa multiple-flyby mission would need much longer to reach Jupiter with other rockets.
The asteroid redirect mission would be problematic without SLS.
Mars return would be possible with SLS, but challenging to impossible with single rocket launches of other rockets.

None of these are even in planning at the moment. Moot.

A manned mission to fix/upgrade JWST (if necessary) would be possible with SLS

It would be pointless. Just build another JWST and launch it.

ITS is a daring concept. If it works as they imagine, it will start a new era of spaceflight. But systems rarely work as well as they are first envisioned. It could get more expensive, less reliable, ... as imagined.

In private business, if you fail at a huge project, you go bankrupt. That's the reason why private business-driven economy is better that government-driven one: bad ideas are "punished", they are not perpetuated for many decades.

Indeed, SpaceX can fail if they embark on a project which turns out to be a bad idea. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

In comparison, NASA got used to initiating failing projects and surviving them.
 
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  • #194
For the time being though, only the Russian launch system is considered to be more or less safe
as a vehicle for transporting humans to LEO.
It is OK-ish, but I sure most Russians would like to see something more inspiring.
 
  • #195
nikkkom said:
None of these are even in planning at the moment. Moot.
We must have different a understanding of "planning". NASA is actively developing the Europa mission, and there are plans for the asteroid mission as well.
nikkkom said:
It would be pointless. Just build another JWST and launch it.
It got way too expensive for that. Sure, a second one is cheaper than the first one, but not that much cheaper.
nikkkom said:
Indeed, SpaceX can fail if they embark on a project which turns out to be a bad idea. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Some things turn out to be good ideas - but only much later. Without governments funding fundamental research without immediate profit, we wouldn't have the applications that come later.
 
  • #196
mfb said:
Without governments funding fundamental research without immediate profit

What SpaceX is doing is not fundamental research. It's "ordinary" (hehe) engineering in a well-known area.

They just do it better than others in their field.
 
  • #197
mfb said:
We must have different a understanding of "planning". NASA is actively developing the Europa mission, and there are plans for the asteroid mission as well.

Yes, regarding Europa mission, I missed that it recently was approved and is now being worked on. Current launch projection NET 2022.

Unless SpaceX massively fails in its rocket program, Falcon Heavy should be able to send some 12 ton spacecraft to Jupiter. Europa Flyby Mission people will need to invent a reason why they can't use it.
 
  • #198
nikkkom said:
What SpaceX is doing is not fundamental research. It's "ordinary" (hehe) engineering in a well-known area.
I think sending a Dragon to Mars is beyond what most companies would do. If the knowledge gained from that mission will make profit at all, it is significantly more than 10 years into the future.
nikkkom said:
Unless SpaceX massively fails in its rocket program, Falcon Heavy should be able to send some 12 ton spacecraft to Jupiter. Europa Flyby Mission people will need to invent a reason why they can't use it.
It will still take longer than with SLS, or the spacecraft has to be lighter. The difference is smaller than the difference to existing rockets, but we are comparing two future rocket systems here, and SLS wins in terms of launch capability. If you ask "what missions cannot be done without rocket X", the answer is "there are no such missions" for nearly all existing rockets. That doesn't mean nearly all existing rockets are useless. They can be better for some missions and worse for others.
 
  • #199
mfb said:
It will still take longer than with SLS, or the spacecraft has to be lighter.

I have hard time imagining what exactly they can put into the spacecraft to even approach "12 tons to Jupiter" limit of FH. Cassini/Huygens was 5.7 tons fully fueled.
 
  • #200
FH payload to Mars is 13.5 tons. Jupiter would need at least 2 km/s delta_v more. 12 tons would need at least one fly-by in the inner solar system, probably more, a direct mission has to be much lighter.

More mass makes everything easier. You need less R&D for mass savings, you can add more instruments, a larger antenna, more fuel for a longer mission, more redundancy in various components, ...
Cassini/Huygens had a mass of 5.7 tons because they didn't have a rocket to make it heavier. It launched with the most powerful rocket available at that time.
 
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