Space-Time curvature? the units?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the units of curvature in the context of spacetime as described by General Relativity (GR). Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical formulations, and the implications of different unit systems on curvature measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant queries the units of curvature, referencing the equation G(curvature)=8πGT/c^4.
  • Another participant corrects a misunderstanding regarding the variable T in the Einstein equation, clarifying that it refers to the stress-energy tensor, not temperature, and states that curvature has units of 1/length².
  • It is noted that the metric tensor is dimensionless and that the curvature tensor, being a second derivative of the metric tensor, also has units of 1/L².
  • Discussion includes the idea that there is no uniquely defined answer to the units of curvature, as GR can be formulated in various unit systems, including those where c=1 and G=1.
  • Participants mention that coordinates in GR do not have to adhere to specific units, allowing for flexibility in how curvature components are expressed.
  • Questions arise about how to derive curvature from the tensor, with a participant suggesting a method involving distance² and the tensor value, while another emphasizes the existence of various curvature measures and their dependence on coordinate choices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and units of curvature, with no consensus reached on a singular approach or interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to express curvature in relation to the stress-energy tensor.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on chosen units and coordinate systems, as well as the potential for varying interpretations of curvature measures in GR.

MoonAlex
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What would the units be on the curvature of spacetime? G(curvature)=8πGT/c^4
 
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CompuChip's answer is not right. T in the Einstein equation refers to the stress-energy tensor, not temperature.

In fact, the units of curvature are 1/length^2. The metric tensor is dimensionless, and the curvature tensor, being the second derivative of the metric tensor, has units 1/L^2. T has units of energy density (M/(L*T^2)), and 8*pi*G/c^4 has units (T^2/(M*L)). Note that the cosmological constant also has units of 1/L^2.
 
There is no uniquely well defined answer to this question. You can do GR in units where c=1 and G=1, or units where c=1 but G\ne 1, or in SI units whether neither of these equals 1. Also, there is no requirement in GR that coordinates have any particular units. For instance, you could have spherical coordinates (t,r,\theta,\phi), where t and r might have units of meters (with c=1), but the angles would be unitless. So a curvature component like R_{tr} wouldn't have the same units as one like R_{\theta\phi}.
 
Would you then take then distance² and multiply it by the value of the tensor and get the curverature in radians? Or how would you get the curverature using the tensor?
 
MoonAlex said:
Would you then take then distance² and multiply it by the value of the tensor and get the curverature in radians? Or how would you get the curverature using the tensor?

Not sure what you mean by this. There are various measures of curvature, which are all tensors of some kind. In GR, the mother of all curvature tensors is the Riemann tensor, which is rank 4. From it, you can derive various rank-4, -2 and -0 (scalar) curvature tensors. All of these could have any units (or components with any mixture of units) you like, depending on how you choose your coordinates.
 

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