Square numbers between n and 2n -- Check my proof please

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence of perfect squares within the interval (n, 2n) for integers n greater than 4. Participants review a proof presented by one member and explore alternative approaches and potential issues with the proof's structure and logic.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims to have proved that for any integer n greater than 4, there exists at least one perfect square in the interval (n, 2n) using mathematical induction.
  • Another participant suggests that the proof is overly complicated and that a simpler argument could suffice, specifically mentioning the condition n > 2√n + 1 for n > 4.
  • A different participant challenges the validity of an assertion in the proof, providing a counterexample with n=8, where multiple squares exist in the interval.
  • Some participants discuss the correct formulation of the induction hypothesis, emphasizing the need to prove the existence of a perfect square for n+1 based on the case for n.
  • One participant proposes that a suitable x can always be found within the bounds of √n and √n + 1, except under specific conditions related to n.
  • A later reply corrects a previous statement about the key expression needed for the proof, indicating a need for careful consideration of floor and ceiling functions in the context of square roots.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the proof's validity and complexity, with no consensus reached on the best approach or the correctness of the original proof. Multiple competing perspectives on the existence of perfect squares in the specified interval are present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential issues with notation and the need for clearer definitions in the proof. There are also unresolved questions regarding the conditions under which certain statements hold true.

Raffaele
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I noticed that for any integer greater than 4 there exists at least one perfect square in the open interval (n, 2n). I think I have proved the statement, but as I am not a professional, I'd like someone to review my proof.

By induction we see that it is true for n=5 because 5<9<10.

Now suppose that it is true for n, and let's prove it for n + 1.
From the inductive hypothesis we know that there is an x such that n<x^2<n+1. This square should work for n + 1 too. Like in the case of n=5 the square 9 works for 6, 7 and 8 too. But not for n=9 or greater. Here we need the next square 16.

So if x^2\ge n+1 we must show that (x+1)^2 is the square we need. In other words we have to verify that
n+1<(x+1)^2<2(n+1)
Notice that for positive n, if x^2\le n+1 then x\le \sqrt{n+1}. As n<x^2 it follows that
n+1<x^2+1<x^2+2x+1=(x+1)^2
We have to show that (x+1)^2<2(n+1)
(x+1)^2=x^2+2x+1<\left(n+1\right)+2\sqrt{n+1}+1
\left(n+1\right)+2\sqrt{n+1}+1 < 2(n+1)
n^2-4n-4>0\rightarrow n>2\sqrt 2 + 2\rightarrow n\ge 5
So we proved that for any n\ge 5 there is at least one x such that n< x^2 < 2n.
 
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The statement is true, but the proof looks more complicated than necessary - you don't need mathematical induction. All you need is (similar to what you have) is n\gt 2\sqrt{n} + 1 for n > 4.
 
Looks like Your 4th sentence is false to start with.
##x^2 \geq n+1## ... consider n=8, interval is 9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17 ... there are two squares in the interval.
7th sentence... try verifying the statement by example... n=5
Then the expression asserts that 6<100<12 ... which is false.

At best you need to tidy up your notation.

By induction, you want to assume: ##\exists x\in\mathbb Z: n <x^2<2n## is true, then prove
##\exists x\in\mathbb Z: n+1 <x^2<2n+2## .
 
No, you want to assume: ##\exists x \in\mathbb Z: n <x^2<2n## is true, then prove ##\exists y \in\mathbb Z: n+1 <y^2<2n+2## . Most of the time you can take y=x and this is trivial, but it doesn't always work.
 
In fact, you can always find ##x## such that:

##\sqrt{n} < x \le \sqrt{n}+1##

This ##x## does the job unless ##6n \ge n^2 + 1##, which only holds for ##n < 6##

Then you can check ##n = 5## manually.
 
Last edited:
My previous note is in error. The key expression should be \lfloor \sqrt{n} \rfloor +1 \lt \lceil \sqrt{2n} \rceil.
 

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