[Stat Mech] Different answers when using log space

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of pressure for a non-ideal gas using the configurational potential energy partition function. The original poster presents two different expressions for pressure derived from the partition function and explores the discrepancies that arise when using logarithmic transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive pressure using two different forms of the partition function and questions why the results differ. Some participants suggest examining the assumptions made during the derivations, particularly regarding the treatment of small terms. Others raise concerns about the validity of approximations used in the calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the mathematical reasoning behind the discrepancies. Some guidance has been offered regarding the implications of approximating small terms, and there is an exploration of the effects of these approximations on the final results.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption that the second virial coefficient is small, which influences the approximations made in the calculations. There is a focus on the implications of this assumption on the derived expressions for pressure.

Clever-Name
Messages
378
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


I have come across a rather interesting conundrum. Given the configurational potential energy partition function for a non-ideal gas:

<br /> Z = Z_{internal}\frac{1}{N!}\left(\frac{2\pi m}{h^{2}\beta}\right)^{\frac{3N}{2}}(V^{N} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{N-1})<br />

where B_{2}(T) is the second virial coefficient.

I'm supposed to solve for the pressure.

Homework Equations



p = \frac{1}{\beta Z}\frac{\partial Z}{\partial V}

or

p = \frac{1}{\beta}\frac{\partial ln(Z)}{\partial V}

The Attempt at a Solution



If we calculate it using the first expression for p we arrive at

<br /> p = \frac{1}{\beta}\left(\frac{N}{V} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}(N-1)V^{-2} \right)<br />

However if you do it using the second form for p you can arrive at two different answers depending on how you 'prepare' the 3rd term in Z

Ignoring terms that don't involve V, if you start with it as written and evaluate

<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial V} ln(V^{N} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{N-1})<br />
<br /> = \frac{NV^{N-1} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}(N-1)V^{N-2}}{(V^{N} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{N-1})} <br />

in the denominator (for each case) we assume B_{2}(T) is small, so we can write the denominator just as V^{N}

So we arrive at

<br /> \frac{N}{V} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}(N-1)V^{-2}<br />

OK, great that's what it should be, but if you start out with:

<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial V}ln(V^{N}(1-B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{-1}))<br />

<br /> = \frac{\partial}{\partial V}\left(ln(V^{N}) + ln(1-B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{-1})\right)<br />

<br /> = \frac{N}{V}+ \frac{B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{-2}}{(1-B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{-1})}<br />

Again, B_{2}(T) is small, so:

<br /> <br /> = \frac{N}{V} + B_{2}(T)N^{2}V^{-2}<br /> <br />

Now we have a different answer...

Why is this happening??

In my prof's notes he uses the second derivation, where we get a different answer from every other calculation.

I suspect
<br /> \frac{N}{V} - B_{2}(T)N^{2}(N-1)V^{-2}<br />

is the correct form but I can't see what's wrong with the other way.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Simplifying the expressions by writing a = B2(T)N2:
Clever-Name said:
\frac{\partial}{\partial V} ln(V^{N} - aV^{N-1})= \frac{NV^{N-1} - a(N-1)V^{N-2}}{(V^{N} - aV^{N-1})}
in the denominator (for each case) we assume a is small, so we can write the denominator just as V^{N}. So we arrive at
\frac{N}{V} - a(N-1)V^{-2}
OK, great that's what it should be, but if you start out with:
\frac{\partial}{\partial V}ln(V^{N}(1-aV^{-1}))= \frac{\partial}{\partial V}\left(ln(V^{N}) + ln(1-aV^{-1})\right)= \frac{N}{V}+ \frac{aV^{-2}}{(1-aV^{-1})}
Again, a is small, so:
= \frac{N}{V} + aV^{-2}
Your problem is that the error from your 'a is small' approximation is the same order as the smaller of the terms you retain. Therefore that term is entirely untrustworthy.
More appropriate would be:
\frac{NV^{N-1} - a(N-1)V^{N-2}}{(V^{N} - aV^{N-1})}= \frac{N}{V}\frac{1-a(1-1/N)V^{-1}}{1 - aV^{-1}}
≈\frac{N}{V}(1-a(1-1/N)V^{-1})(1 + aV^{-1})≈\frac{N}{V}(1-a(1-1/N)V^{-1} + aV^{-1})=\frac{N}{V}(1+\frac{a}{NV})
 
Ok, I'm not sure I'm following here. You have derived the correct expression, sure, but we can arrive at that just as easily by saying 1 - aV^{-1} = 1 in the second derivation. How come we're not allowed to do that when we have V^{N}(1-aV^{-1}). I'm not sure I understand your comment about the error.
 
Clever-Name said:
I'm not sure I understand your comment about the error.
In the first derivation, you equate the denominator to VN while that denominator applies to the whole expression. The ignored term, as a fraction of the retained VN, is -a/V. Dropping it therefore increases the denominator by a fraction a/V, and thus decreases the entire expression by approximately that fraction: x → x - xa/V.
In the answer derived, the leading term is N/V. Thus the expression as a whole has lost roughly (N/V)*(a/V) = Na/V2. That is the size of the discrepancy between your two answers.
In your second derivation you made the approximation after separating off the leading term. As a result, the induced error was a second order small quantity.
 
Oh ok that makes sense now, thanks for the help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
46
Views
3K