Tensors: Bar Symbol Over Functions or Indices?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation used for tensor quantities during coordinate transformations, specifically whether to place a bar over the functions or the indices. The scope includes theoretical considerations in tensor calculus and its application in physics, particularly in the context of general relativity and special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the choice of notation (bar over functions vs. indices) is largely a matter of personal preference, with clarity depending on the specific problem being addressed.
  • Others argue that placing bars over the indices makes more sense when referring to the same tensor field in different coordinates, as the tensor itself is independent of the coordinate system.
  • A participant notes that for the notation to be valid, the same region of the manifold should be considered before and after the parametrization, as differing domains would lead to different functions.
  • Another participant acknowledges the importance of overlapping charts on a manifold, suggesting that the focus should be on the overlap of coordinate function domains, while also noting that many problems simply involve transforming coordinates without changing the underlying manifold.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate notation for tensors during coordinate transformations, with no consensus reached on a definitive approach.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the potential for confusion arising from different notational conventions and the implications of coordinate transformations on tensor quantities, particularly in relation to the domains of functions and the nature of the manifold.

kent davidge
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When dealing with any tensor quantity, when making a coordinate transformation, we should put a bar (or whatever symbol) over the functions or over the indices? For exemple, should the metric coefficients ##g_{\mu \nu}## be written in another coord sys as ##\bar g_{\mu \nu}## or as ##g_{\bar \mu \bar \nu}##?
 
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I think this is more of a notational preference. There might be a clearer choice depending on the type of problem you’re working, though. Personally, if I’m referring to the same tensor field simply in different coordinates, it usually makes more sense to me to put the bars over the indices.
 
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Pencilvester said:
Personally, if I’m referring to the same tensor field simply in different coordinates, it usually makes more sense to me to put the bars over the indices.
I fully agree. The symbol itself is the field that does not care about coordinates and what actually is basis dependent are the components. Unfortunately, many people don't agree ...
 
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Pencilvester said:
I think this is more of a notational preference. There might be a clearer choice depending on the type of problem you’re working, though. Personally, if I’m referring to the same tensor field simply in different coordinates, it usually makes more sense to me to put the bars over the indices.
Orodruin said:
I fully agree. The symbol itself is the field that does not care about coordinates and what actually is basis dependent are the components. Unfortunately, many people don't agree ...
Thank you. For this to be valid, we should consider the same region of the manifold before and after the parametrization, correct? Because otherwise the domain of the functions would be different, what in turn makes the functions different.
 
kent davidge said:
Thank you. For this to be valid, we should consider the same region of the manifold before and after the parametrization, correct? Because otherwise the domain of the functions would be different, what in turn makes the functions different.
It sounds like you’re thinking about overlapping charts on a manifold, in which case, yes, you should be looking at where the domains of the coordinate functions overlap. However, for many problems, the issue is not getting from one patch of spacetime to another, it’s what happens simply when we transform the coordinates we’re using (think of almost all problems in SR, where most reasonable choices of coordinates for inertial observers cover the entire manifold).
 
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Pencilvester said:
It sounds like you’re thinking about overlapping charts on a manifold, in which case, yes, you should be looking at where the domains of the coordinate functions overlap. However, for many problems, the issue is not getting from one patch of spacetime to another, it’s what happens simply when we transform the coordinates we’re using (think of almost all problems in SR, where most reasonable choices of coordinates for inertial observers cover the entire manifold).
Thanks!
 

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