Does the Size of Grit Affect the Coefficient of Friction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the size of grit on sandpaper and its effect on the coefficient of friction (COF). Participants explore the mechanisms of friction, the physical properties of different grit sizes, and the implications of these factors in experimental contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that their experiment suggests a decrease in COF with increasing grit size but seeks to understand the underlying reasons.
  • Another participant questions how sandpaper generates friction and whether this mechanism varies with grit size.
  • Some participants propose that larger grit sizes create more space between particles, potentially affecting physical interactions, while also suggesting that rougher surfaces may penetrate more into the materials they contact.
  • A participant describes a thought experiment involving coarse sandpaper and asks what conditions would allow them to slide over each other.
  • One participant argues that as roughness increases, the number of contact points decreases, which they relate to a reduction in COF.
  • Another participant raises the idea that COF may not be a universally applicable measure for all surfaces, suggesting that non-linear friction behavior may require more complex descriptions than COF alone.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses regarding the relationship between grit size and COF, but no consensus is reached on the mechanisms or implications of these observations. Multiple competing views remain regarding the validity and applicability of COF as a measure of friction.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the limitations of COF as a useful quantity for all surfaces and suggest that different surface profiles may require specific analyses. There is also uncertainty regarding the existence of formulas that relate COF to the number of contact points.

Nick tringali
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Hello physics forums,
I recently carried out an experiment testing the coefficient of friction of different grit sandpaper
My data supports that when you raise grit you decrease the cof.
My problem is WHY, why does the size of the grit have any impact on the coefficient of friction. Any ideas would help.
 
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To get the ball rolling, what really your ideas? How does sandpaper create friction? Does that mechanism change with the grit?
 
Ok so when the grit is around 2000 it feels like paper but when the grit is 50 it feels rough so here are some ideas
-There is more space between the particles in the 50 grit (but why does that make a difference physicaly
-There is more penatration into the surfaces
Thats all i got
 
Nick tringali said:
Ok so when the grit is around 2000 it feels like paper but when the grit is 50 it feels rough so here are some ideas
-There is more space between the particles in the 50 grit (but why does that make a difference physicaly
-There is more penatration into the surfaces
Thats all i got
Sand paper is rough but... Why does rough raise the cof is what I am geting at
 
Imagine you had two sheets of very coarse sandpaper with the rough surfaces together. Try sketching an enlarged cross section. What would have to happen for them to slide over each other?
 
The grits work bump into each other
 
Thats easy. As the roughness increases, the number of points of contact / area will reduce.

Stiction per point of contact, x reduced number of contacts / area = ∆µ < 0
 
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Stuart21 said:
Thats easy. As the roughness increases, the number of points of contact / area will reduce.

Stiction per point of contact, x reduced number of contacts / area = ∆µ ≤ 0 (hold the equals - don't have a 'less than')
Thanks bud
 
Are there any formulas with mu and number of contact points?
 
  • #10
I don't think COF is a valid / useful quantity for all surfaces. The reason that COF is a useful quantity in many cases can be explained by the change in area of contact between faces in contact if the normal force changes. If you are dealing with a pair of surfaces which don't follow Hooke's Law then more coefficients are needed than COF to describe what happens. Sandpaper is a bit like two sets of gear teeth and the friction there is very non-linear (infinite until the teeth actually break).
 
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  • #11
Thanks so there are no related formulas that come to mind?
 
  • #12
Nick tringali said:
Thanks so there are no related formulas that come to mind?
Either use the old favourite one or, when that fails, you have to get down to specifics of each surface profile, I would think. I wouldn't look for a "formula", as such.
 
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