The Devil's Gun: What Point Achieves Max Acceleration?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving a hypothetical gun with an infinite barrel length and a bullet containing an infinite charge of gunpowder. Participants explore the implications of this scenario on concepts of acceleration, infinity, and potential analogies to the expanding universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Nomdeplume poses a question about the point in the barrel where the bullet achieves maximum acceleration, referencing the complexities of infinity.
  • Some participants suggest that the answer might be "half-way," while others challenge the notion of fractions of infinite lengths.
  • Bobbywhy questions the clarity of Nomdeplume's inquiry and suggests that the framing of the question may be nonsensical.
  • Nomdeplume acknowledges the confusion and attempts to clarify the analogy between the gun and the universe, questioning if the universe is a closed system and if its volume is infinite.
  • Another participant argues that gunpowder cannot be compared to dark energy, emphasizing that gunpowder has a maximum rate of expansion.
  • Nomdeplume expresses a desire to refine their language and clarify their questions regarding the universe's energy sources and acceleration.
  • One participant humorously suggests that a verifiable answer to the questions posed could lead to a Nobel Prize.
  • A later reply humorously critiques the claim about consulting Newton via telegraph, pointing out the anachronism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement, with some questioning the validity of the thought experiment while others engage with the analogies presented. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the implications of the thought experiment or its relation to real-world physics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex concepts such as infinity, acceleration, and energy sources, which may not have clear definitions or resolutions within the context of the thought experiment. Participants express varying degrees of clarity and confusion regarding the questions posed.

Nomdeplume
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A question for you learned gentlemen and ladies:

The Devil being a crafty sort of fellow and not caring one nit about gun control laws decides to create a gun of infinite barrel length, loaded with a bullet containing an infinite charge of gunpowder/blackpowder or the like.

Presuming his iron works have found a way to create a bullet that can withstand such forces...

At what point in the barrel does the bullet achieve maximum acceleration?

(I have from reliable sources that Newton was consulted via long distance telegraph and the answer wasn't as simple as hoped.)


[mods please feel free to move this to a different area if required]
 
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Half-way.
 
A crafty fellow like the devil would not likely waste his time on a gun that can't be pointed at anything, so what does it matter?
 
Nomdeplume, Welcome to Physics Forums!

You specify in your thought experiment an "infinite barrel length" What is half (or any fraction) of an infinite length?

Real scientists are frustrated when infinities appear in their calculations. Is there some hidden point or a disquised message in your experiment?

Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
Thank you Bobbywhy, long time lurker but only a couple of posts.

Agreed, the infinite appears to present a thorny issue for physicists, cosmologists, theologians and philosophers from Bruno to Zeno.

Your perception of my question is spot on; there was a hidden point, or at least question of sorts:
My understanding (and please) correct me if I'm wrong is the is that the bullet in the devils gun would would could undergo constant acceleration and/or reach a theoretical limit...or indeed the very framing of the question makes it nonsensical.

My confusion/concern comes in with the application of answers of the aforementioned to the accelerating expansion of the Universe (whether it is a closed system or an open system and if the energy contained therein is infinite would determine if it is at all analogous).

I certainly appreciate everyone's time and consideration.
 
Nomdeplume, you have an unusual way of expressing yourself and as a result I cannot understand what you are asking. From your last post:

“My confusion/concern comes in with the application of answers of the aforementioned” [which you described as “nonsensical”]

“to the accelerating expansion of the Universe” [Yes, this is in accordance with the Standard model.]

“(whether it is a closed system or an open system” [is this your question?]

“and if the energy contained therein is infinite” [infinite energy…that’s really a lot!]

“would determine if it is at all analogous).” [analogous to what?]

It appears to me you are continuing to hide your question with unclear, or even mystical, English language. If you seriously desire some answer to a real question I promise you members here in Physics Forums are ready, fully qualified, and willing to assist you to overcome your “confusion/concern”.

If you would please write out a clear and simple question, or express concisely what your doubt is, you may expect a reasonable answer. If you are not serious and just want to troll around with obscure unfathomable statements sprinkled with scientific terms then please don’t return.

Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
I don't think that this infinite gun is in any way analogous to the expanding universe. Gunpowder can not be compared to the dark energy that drives the expansion.
Most importantly gunpowder has a maximum rate of expansion (around 2000m/s).
 
My apologies if I came across troll like, not my intent and I'll work on cleaning up the language to make it more precise as well. I left study of physics years ago for continental philosophy but it still fascinates me.

I created original analogy to simplify the system.

Is the universe a closed system? (analogous to the barrel of the gun)
Is the volume of the universe infinite? (length of barrel of gun)
Is there a constant theoretically inexhaustible, or at least at this point not yet exhausted energy source? (gunpowder) Thank you DrZ., to clarify I didn't really mean gunpowder but rather an energy source that leads to expansion.

At what point does the bullet achieve maximum acceleration? Again, I appreciate the effort and responses, if it is nonsensical then the thread can be closed.
 
Nomdeplume said:
Is the universe a closed system? (analogous to the barrel of the gun)
Is the volume of the universe infinite? (length of barrel of gun)

Those are good questions and if you can come up with a verifiable answer for either of them, I predict a Nobel Prize in your future.
 
  • #10
Nomdeplume said:
I have from reliable sources that Newton was consulted via long distance telegraph and the answer wasn't as simple as hoped.

[mods please feel free to move this to a different area if required]

I don't think Newton had access to telegraphs during his time, better check that 'source' ;)